Tilt switch info for all interested

[Mike McNaney]

Sooooo...... We kinda stole a thread the past few days discussing tilt switches and even got a great pic and input about Suzuki OEM switches. This idea is a great one and I was wondering why in the H E double toothpick they arent installed on most bikes and on and on...

Well I said I was putting it on my list for today and I did. I even put off a couple of entries to explore the issue. Here is the Skinny.

There are three most popular types of tilt switches, the roller ball, the mercury and the microchip.

I went to my local electrics supply store and they have a bin of mercury switches, 90 degree no less and close to perfect for the intended application except the tubes are too short and the mercury jumps and would close the contacts if you were going over a pothole. A longer tube would fit the bill or a tube with a crimp in the middle but this isnt possible unless you lie. Read on...

So I called Russel scientific, the self proclaimed leader in mercury switches and talked to their tech people. They said they could custom make any tube shape and the cost was really reasonable. Per thousand, minimum. We discussed the application and The bottom line is that mercury switches are not allowed on vehicles anymore or more specifically any vehicle that may crash and dump a broken vile of mercury on the ground. OK, I see that.

Then I called Solico which is a major supplier of different configuration roller ball tilt switches. Here the problem is two fold. 1). the roller ball style would only last a few months since the vibration of the bike would make the ball eat away at its seat or chamber. 2). They want nothing to do with suppliing a product that may be blamed for a death due to failure.

Next I called signalquest which is a manufacturer of microchip tilt switches. They assured me that they could make a switch to specifications that would sit up and beg if i wanted and that a 90 degree verticle two way was a piece of cake. After we discussed the application, Same story though about liability and the guy told me that Honda has been asking for one of these for a few years and is getting a "NO" due to the liability issues in the U.S.

Guess what he suggested? Go buy one of Suzuki's from the dealership!!! then he described it to me and mentioned that they stick.

I swear I didnt say anything to him!

I guess this idea is not new or small. He says Suzuki makes their own thru their electronics connections in Japan and being sold on a new bike it holds no more liability than you accept when you buy a GSXR.

so I guess the moral of this story is... If you want something done right you'll have to do it yourself.

Se la vie'

[Mike McNaney]

Hey it didnt go to the top.

BUMP.

[bradleymaynar]

You failed to mention what the applications might be, other than actually dropping the bike. Is this the only reason for it? A lanyard type switch would also work, like those on watercraft, since the body is likely to leave the vehicle in an adverse situation.

I'm not, in any way, saying that this is a bad idea (plus I didn't catch the other thread). I just need a little clarification as to it's reason.

Brad bt

[Mike McNaney]

I didnt look into the lanyard kill switch as I discounted them personally.
I have two Kawasaki jet skiis with the lanyard. One 900 and one 1100 and personally think that they could cause problems with dexterity on a cycle. sometimes you need to take your hands off the bars and shake it off, am I right? water is more forgiving than asphalt.
Something attached to your body isnt so good me thinks.
Ive actually broken the kill switch twice on the 1100 when doing crazily fun stuff and had to paddle and push back to shore.

Just my opinion.

We were discussing how an engine could be damaged during a lite fall if it runs on its side for too long while you are trying to collect yourself. More likely than not they end up revving on their side for a minute or more with a large chance of damage.


By the way Bradley Maynor I grew up for a time in Rockford. I went to Eisenhower Junior High and lived at 711 Roland Avenue.

Small GS site huh?

[first timer]

so just get the electronic switch and tell them it is for some sort of manufacturing device you are marketing. problem solved. You may also want to think about wiring in the horn circuit so when the bike goes down the horn will sound and stay sounding drawing attention to the crash so people can quickly find you. this would be good for back road riding where there are drop offs and a down rider is hard to see. Or you can just find the gsxr switch part number and order it from bike bandit.

[Mike McNaney]

Sorry man, the liability issue IS heavy. The suzuki ones fail on the track and guys are getting run over. Besides if its not a switch they already make then there is a minimum purchase and what would i do with the other 999? or 1999?

If Im going to lie about it I'd have a mercury switch made up. Price quoted was $1.13 a piece per thousand. Minimum 1000 and .97c each over 10,000. The other types were more than double that.

Actually I think That Im going to buy a couple oem Suzuki ones and call it good. I dont lean past 70 degrees at any time no matter what so I doubt I'll have the chance to see it cut my engine off in mid turn.

Suzuki calls them a fuel cutoff switch and they are $47 from bike bandit. My local dealer is a complete rip off on everything.

[bradleymaynar]

By the way Bradley Maynor I grew up for a time in Rockford. I went to Eisenhower Junior High and lived at 711 Roland Avenue.

Small GS site huh?

I lived on Glenwood Ave. 'til I was 5 and then moved up to Roscoe. Now I live on Lawndale and Edgemont (between RMH and West (it's a middle school now)).

Maybe a lanyard switch that connected somewhere else. Perhaps an ankle or waist. It'd just be a matter of repostioning the switch. Have you looked into what drag bikers use?

Brad bt

[first timer]

then just make a murcery switch yourself, just need a hot enough torch, some glass tube, some wire and a little mercury. just take the tube bend it to the curve you want, then heat a section of it hot enough so you can poke stiff wire through it. dab some more melted glass to make sure it is sealed. then use silicon or expoxy seal one end add mercury seal the other end and there you have it. you could probly even do this with some vinyle fuel tube as well.

[Mike McNaney]

Im not really so worried about a lay over cut off switch myself although now, after thinking about it, im going to put one on my bikes. I just thought I saw a glimmer of ease in profit and a huge market but after the investigation it doesnt look so promising. The first dead guy would ruin everything.

I was able to do something similiar last year with a special type of two position electric guitar knob and made a tidy bit. Ive always got my mind in gear although my mouth freewheels sometimes.

[jeddininja]

Mike
Great idea. Too bad about the stupid 'legal' stuff.
Here's a thought.
bike goes down (heaven forbid)
engine revs
engine gets damaged
why?
If it's because the oil sump goes dry (which would be indicated by a drop in oil pressure...)
how about an oil pressure kill switch?

keep in mind that i seldom know what is going on.

[Mike McNaney]

Thats really on the right track and probably more in line with legal reality.

[bwringer]

Mike
Great idea. Too bad about the stupid 'legal' stuff.
Here's a thought.
bike goes down (heaven forbid)
engine revs
engine gets damaged
why?
If it's because the oil sump goes dry (which would be indicated by a drop in oil pressure...)
how about an oil pressure kill switch?

keep in mind that i seldom know what is going on.

Make sure you put a timer delay on it, with a big red blinking light or something so that the rider knows his pressure's low and the engine's about to stop dead. This could also be quite deadly midcorner at the ragged edge of traction... personally, I'd much rather take my chances.

If I biff it so bad I can't crawl over and kick the kill switch, a revving engine is the least of my worries.



Kidding aside, what would be a LOT more interesting and effective as far as preventing engine damage would be a progressive and adjustable rev limiter that works with the electronic ignitions on older bikes and with common replacement/upgrades like the Dyna ignitions.

Everyone's missed a shift or had the bike pop out of second, only to wonder if that momentary excursion to 11,000 rpm did any damage.

You could pick up an RPM signal from one of the coil leads, and cut off power to the ignition at a certain level. The cutoff should probably fade in and out gradually over a certain RPM range so the bike won't start bucking between full power and power off.

I have no idea how the ignition electronics/coils would react to having their power suddenly cut off or cycled rapidly, but hey, I'm an idea man. The ignition cutoff seems to work well for drag racers using air shifters.

[Dave8338]

Make sure you put a timer delay on it, with a big red blinking light or something so that the rider knows his pressure's low and the engine's about to stop dead. This could also be quite deadly midcorner at the ragged edge of traction... personally, I'd much rather take my chances.

If I biff it so bad I can't crawl over and kick the kill switch, a revving engine is the least of my worries.



Kidding aside, what would be a LOT more interesting and effective as far as preventing engine damage would be a progressive and adjustable rev limiter that works with the electronic ignitions on older bikes and with common replacement/upgrades like the Dyna ignitions.

Everyone's missed a shift or had the bike pop out of second, only to wonder if that momentary excursion to 11,000 rpm did any damage.

You could pick up an RPM signal from one of the coil leads, and cut off power to the ignition at a certain level. The cutoff should probably fade in and out gradually over a certain RPM range so the bike won't start bucking between full power and power off.

I have no idea how the ignition electronics/coils would react to having their power suddenly cut off or cycled rapidly, but hey, I'm an idea man. The ignition cutoff seems to work well for drag racers using air shifters.

Brian, once again, for better or worse, count me in, on your thoughts. I've been watching this thread to see where it goes and I've got to agree with you. If you drop the bike in such a fashion that a stuck throttle blows the engine, and you're able to walk away from the scene or at least roll or crawl away, who cares if, when you get the bike back, you have to do a complete rebuild? At least you survived to do the work!!!! \\/ I can't count the times that for what ever reason, (in my younger years, we used to ride the road maintainer/grader ridges on the gravel roads with our dirt bikes) I've had to, or was forced to, abandon bike and take the hard way down, at that point, I gave a rats arse about the bike, and just wanted to ride it out to get back on the machine, only to do it all over again the next day. 8-[ Only once have I layed down a street bike (CB 650) at 70+ MPH on a curve (DEATH WOBBLE!!!!!!!!!!!) and thanks to the man upstairs and some very wet grass in the ditch and great timing on the "duck the barb wire fence", was I glad to be alive! Bike, what bike, I'm alive, and am walking away!!!! F--- the bike!!!!!!! A kill setting on the RPMs, I'm all in favor of that! Missed a gear or ten in my time, and would have been happy to hear the engine "cut" in suth situations.