Replacing non-OEM stator & R/R

[Guest]

I got my GS1000G back together only to find it's not charging. With a digital voltmeter and fully charged battery (battery is about a month old), I'm seeing around 11.5V at idle and about 11.8 at higher RPM (4K or so).

For background, apparently the PO replaced the stator and R/R with aftermarket parts. The stator's OEM yellow, white/red, and white/blue wires were gone and I had three yellow wires feeding into a molded 3 pin connector. The R/R says "RMSTATOR" on it and has 5 wires (see pic attached). The ground (green) wire is mostly melted, but still connected when I probed it for continuity. It still had the bullet connector as did the red wire, which had an additional splice for the bullet connector. The ground wire was connected to one of the hold down bolts via a ring terminal past the bullet connector.

I read and followed the testing procedures in the Stator Papers FAQ here. This is what I got:
Stator test 1:
Detach the three wires coming from the stator (in my case these are white/blue, white/green and yellow). Have the engine running at 5000 rpm and measure the potential difference between all possible pairs (white/blue against white/green, white/blue against yellow, white/green against yellow). In all cases the potential difference should be more than 75 V during a short test. If that's okay, go to step 3.

Using the molded connector, I numbered the pins 1-3.
On pins 1-2 I got 43.3VAC @ 5K RPM
On 1-3 I got 37.8V
On 2-3 I got 64.7V

I did test my meter with a house outlet & it was good.

Stator test 2:
If the previous test has shown that our beloved stator is suspect, we will measure resistance between all pairs of the stator and between each lead and the stator center (with the engine turned OFF). In all cases we should see a low resistance or continuity between the 3 legs, testing them in pairs. We should not have a resistance reading of infinity ('open') or zero (short). Instead you should see a resistance reading that is within 0.5 to 2.0 Ohms If there is a short or open, somewhere isolation has been damaged (probably melted) and we have a useless stator.

I got a uniform .5 ohm on all three pairs, which is within spec.

I then went to the flow chart page there, and performed the next test:
Connect one of the multimeter leads to one of the three yellow wires. Connect the other multimeter lead up to the engine casing. Check the reading on the meter. Make sure the connection to the casing is a good one ! Any reading between 100 Ohms and zero Ohms= bad stator

I found the stator failed this test- got results of .3 to .5 ohms for all three leads.

The R/R failed the rectifier continuity test completely. On the basis of my testing, it looks like I need a new stator and R/R.

Now for my questions-
1. Does this R/R look like the right part for my bike? It was really hot when the bike was running, and the ground wire having melted is not a good sign.

2. What should I replace it with? I've found the site it came from, as well as another site that sells R/Rs, and I've read here about people using "brand H" R/R units. Is there a particular year & model that is best?

3. Any preferred vendors for this stuff? I've just sunk several hundred into a head repair, new rings & gaskets, so less costly is better!

When I make this repair, I'm going to use weatherpack connectors and automotive grade wiring to avoid any wiring problems. I'm also going to ground the R/R to the battery.

As usual, thanks for the help.

EDIT
I read the Compufire thread, and am going to by one of those. They don't make a stator to fit, so I'll have to go with Electrosport unless there is a better alternative.

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Clean all your electrical connections and grounds.


My recommendation, get a stator from Rick's Electrics and a Honda r/r unit from member duaneage (send him a PM).

Unless you want to spend the big bucks on a Compu-fire r/r unit, then see the information posted by member posplayr.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[GS1000G Shopper]

Thanks Bass. I ordered a Rick's stator and Compu-fire 55402 R/R. I like to fix things like this right the first time, if possible. As a bonus, the review I read about the R/R said it has a weatherpack connector for the stator leads, so a little less work there.

In the meantime, I think I'll keep the battery charged and go on a few short rides seeing as how I've been wrenching on this project for a couple of months now & it's running great.

[BassCliff]

Hi,

I like the Rick's stator the best. It's a quality unit. The RM Stator and the Electrosport have wires that may be too short, no rubber grommet for the stator cover, lousy plastic sheaths. They probably do that to cut costs. But I like the nice braided sheath covering the wires on the Rick's unit, the long wires, good connectors, and the pre-installed rubber grommet for the stator cover.

I'll probably get a Compufire r/r unit if/when my current charging system goes south again. I plan on keeping my bike for a while so it would be worth the investment.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[tom203]

Do you still have the stator loop going thru left handlebar switch? This would throw off your open AC reading test. You should measure this voltage direct from stator, not thru any switch.
In any event, your ohm tests indicate your stator is shorted to ground, so it needs replacing. I'd replace that r/r with at least a Shindengen unit ( big heat sink) if you can't get the Compufire unit.

[GS1000G Shopper]

I did the testing at the molded connector that was under the left side cover by the fusebox, so it was directly from the stator.

I have ordered a Rick's electric stator and a Compufire R/R.

[posplayr]

[QUOTE=GS1000G Shopper;1318329]I got my GS1000G back together only to find it's not charging. With a digital voltmeter and fully charged battery (battery is about a month old), I'm seeing around 11.5V at idle and about 11.8 at higher RPM (4K or so).

QUOTE]

Not good very. Generally ir would be better in this situation to do a Quick_Test as it also seems the battery is down. However most likely stator. pressing on....................

I read and followed the testing procedures in the Stator Papers FAQ here. This is what I got:
Stator test 1:
Detach the three wires coming from the stator (in my case these are white/blue, white/green and yellow). Have the engine running at 5000 rpm and measure the potential difference between all possible pairs (white/blue against white/green, white/blue against yellow, white/green against yellow). In all cases the potential difference should be more than 75 V during a short test. If that's okay, go to step 3.

Using the molded connector, I numbered the pins 1-3.
On pins 1-2 I got 43.3VAC @ 5K RPM
On 1-3 I got 37.8V
On 2-3 I got 64.7V

I did test my meter with a house outlet & it was good.

.

Any failed open circuit stator test means stator is bad
Any passed open circuit stator test in inconclusive about being a good stator.

All open loop stator tests can only verify bad, not verify good stators.

You open circuit test #1 shows low voltages which validates as a BAD stator.

The reason for this is that the tests results are a function of the condition of the insulation. Since the stator wire is not being loaded, any insulation breakdown under rated load (25 amps) may or may no appear. An ohm meter only pushes a fem miliamps and an open circuit voltage test has essentially zero current flow.

Stator test 2:
If the previous test has shown that our beloved stator is suspect, we will measure resistance between all pairs of the stator and between each lead and the stator center (with the engine turned OFF). In all cases we should see a low resistance or continuity between the 3 legs, testing them in pairs. We should not have a resistance reading of infinity ('open') or zero (short). Instead you should see a resistance reading that is within 0.5 to 2.0 Ohms If there is a short or open, somewhere isolation has been damaged (probably melted) and we have a useless stator.

I got a uniform .5 ohm on all three pairs, which is within spec.

I then went to the flow chart page there, and performed the next test:
Connect one of the multimeter leads to one of the three yellow wires. Connect the other multimeter lead up to the engine casing. Check the reading on the meter. Make sure the connection to the casing is a good one ! Any reading between 100 Ohms and zero Ohms= bad stator

I found the stator failed this test- got results of .3 to .5 ohms for all three leads.

.

See test #1 results are stator is BAD, no other test can invalidate that except the same kind of test being passed in which case you made a mistake. Statro is bad we know that. Test #2 is irreleveant.

The R/R failed the rectifier continuity test completely. On the basis of my testing, it looks like I need a new stator and R/R.

Now for my questions-
1. Does this R/R look like the right part for my bike? It was really hot when the bike was running, and the ground wire having melted is not a good sign.

2. What should I replace it with? I've found the site it came from, as well as another site that sells R/Rs, and I've read here about people using "brand H" R/R units. Is there a particular year & model that is best?

3. Any preferred vendors for this stuff? I've just sunk several hundred into a head repair, new rings & gaskets, so less costly is better!

When I make this repair, I'm going to use weatherpack connectors and automotive grade wiring to avoid any wiring problems. I'm also going to ground the R/R to the battery.

As usual, thanks for the help.

EDIT
I read the Compufire thread, and am going to by one of those. They don't make a stator to fit, so I'll have to go with Electrosport unless there is a better alternative.

The compufire will work with any stator. I really like the powder coated coating on the Electro sport; from what I have seen the Ricks is usually pretty skimpy. I've never had issues with lead length on GS1100E/GS750E stators but I'll defer to others on other models.

The fact that the R/R was getting hot means it was in the process of smoking the stator. The R/R cant be hot without the stator being hot. That is because the current making the R/R hot is also in the stator. There is a very common and pervasive illusion that R/R's shunt current to ground so they . The implication being that they can get hot without the stator getting hot. NOT TRUE. The shunt R/R short the stator and make both very unhappy. If you read the compu-fire thread theory that should have been clean.With the SERIES R/R both will breath a sigh of relief.

Good luck and Happy Thanksgiving. This should solve your charging problems.


Anybody else think the Compufire costs too much, think about the cost of being on an extended trip and having a charging system failure. What is it going to cost to get the bike back to someplace to repair or home? It costs about $1/mile using a uhaul and trailer one way. Probably not much cheaper doing an out and back pickup option.

A R/R swap on a road trip might be tolerable, but a stator swap would be a Biatach

[posplayr]

Do you still have the stator loop going thru left handlebar switch? This would throw off your open AC reading test. You should measure this voltage direct from stator, not thru any switch.
In any event, your ohm tests indicate your stator is shorted to ground, so it needs replacing. I'd replace that r/r with at least a Shindengen unit ( big heat sink) if you can't get the Compufire unit.

While I dont recommend it, the only way the open loop AC test can be screwed up by the left hand switch is if the switch is open entirely. Since there is no current flow through the switch the voltage before and after the switch is the same. So as long as it is closed with less than a few hundered ohms of resistance the test will be uneffected.

That is the problem with open loop (unloaded ) stator tests. On the other hand if the left handswitch was grunged up and had 0.5 ohms resistance then the left hand switch would melt the wires (at the switch due to heat) even though the tests showed fine.

Any failed open circuit stator test means stator is bad
Any passed open circuit stator test in inconclusive about being a good stator.

All open loop stator tests can only verify bad, not verify good stators.

[850 Combat]

In my personal experience, it is easy to get bad readings while testing the stator because it is not super easy to get good connections with the meater to the stator leads. I bought a Ricks Stator for a GS850 for this reason. Oh well. It may come in handy some day. Clean connections and added grounds made mine function correctly. All of them.

[GS1000G Shopper]

I have ordered a Rick's electric stator and a Compufire R/R.

Just in case this was overlooked.

Thanks for the analysis. I wanted to run through the tests to see how to do them in case I ever need to do this again, plus I tend to over-think things.

My Thanksgiving has been very happy- I got to ride my GS for the first time since August. Once this is fixed, I'll be riding it a lot more.

[GS1000G Shopper]

I got the job done last night. The pics I took didn't come out so good, but I'll link a couple. I'm really happy with the parts. The Compufire R/R unit dwarfs the RMstator one.

I used some socket head screws with lockwashers to replace the Phillips head stock ones inside the cover for the stator and hold downs.

I bolted the new R/R to the bottom of the battery tray by using a piece of scrap steel that was 1/4" thick and about an inch wide. I drilled & tapped four 6mmx1.0 holes into it and bolted it to the existing bar on the bottom of the tray by drilling two holes through the bar. I ground the ends of the screws off for a flush fit & it fit fairly well. The new R/R has to be as far to the rear as possible, otherwise it hits the cross tube.

The wiring on the R/R is mega. I added an inline fuse holder using a Metripack connector that will accommodate 10 gauge automotive wire, and it was a struggle to get this stuff through. I liked the built-in Weatherpack connector (this replaces the bullet connectors that are the root of the problem), and added a mating connector on the Rick's wiring. There was plenty of wire to go around. The Compufire has 5 wires:
1. Ground with ring terminal- shortened and crimp/soldered a new ring terminal onto it, then used the cut off wire as the positive to fuse holder wire.
2. Positive with and extended .250 female terminal. I cut this off & it went to the fuse holder.
3,4,5. Wires to stator.

It was great to see the voltmeter move past 10V with the engine running.

Pics:
Stator being installed:


Old & new R/R units:

[GS1000G Shopper]

I had a question about installing the Compufire today, and here's my reply for future reference. Unfortunately, the other pics I took were too dark to see details:

Mounting
Use a piece of steel or aluminum- the steel I used was from a heavy duty shelf bracket from Home Depot. It needs to be thick enough to be drilled & tapped, say at least 1/4" or 10mm. If you can weld it to the bottom of the battery box, tapping would not be needed.

You'll need four 6mm-1.0 bolts or screws. The ones from the battery box to the new bracket can be short- say 15mm. Use a lockwasher under them. The ones from the R/R to the new bracket are a little longer- say 20mm. I don't recall the exact length. I used oversized head Phillips head screws to mount the new bracket and socket head ones to mount the R/R to the bracket. These were what I had laying around- other setups will work.

Drill two 1/4" holes in the thin steel mounting piece on the bottom of the box. Space them far enough apart as possible, but leave room for the screw heads & washers. Line up the CF with the rear of the battery box and mark the new piece for the mounting holes. Then mark the bracket for two holes you drilled earlier to mount it to the box.

Drill all 4 of these holes with a 13/64 bit and tap them to 6mm-1.0. You can use whatever size you like here, but this is the standard small thread for the bike.

Bolt the bracket to the box and grind off any of the bolts or screws that stick out. Test fit the R/R and if it is all good take it apart & paint it. Make sure it fits in place with the battery box installed. You can pre-assemble it and install it with the battery box.

Wiring
The CF comes with a Weatherpack (WP) connector with female terminals for the stator wires. You need a mating connector. I buy the connectors and terminals at PCS. Get a half dozen (you need three, get extras) male terminals #12124582 for 16-14 wire from the stator. Same for #15324980 wire seal. Get a #12010717connector and cut off the Suzuki bullet connectors from the stator and replace with the WP ones and you'll have a sealed reliable connection. I crimp & solder all electrical terminals.

For the wires to the battery, I shortened the ground one to fit and crimp/soldered a ring terminal on. I used the cut off ground terminal to feed a 30A ATC (automotive blade style) fuse I made using a Metripack (MP) 630 connector. The connector is #12033769, the cover is #12033731, and the terminals are #12084588.

For fuse protection, you can either make your own with a MP 630 connector or buy one prewired. Using the prewired one means you'll have to splice it into the positive wire for the CF. I mounted the fuse on one of the rear battery box bolts. I don't have a tool tray & suspect this would prevent the use of one.

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Nice work. Thanks for sharing your experience and all this information. I have a feeling that there will be a Compufire r/r unit in my future.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[GS1000G Shopper]

Thank you for a wonderful site, it's been a Godsend in getting my GS roadworthy again.

[Roger P.]

Would this remedy work on a GS?

http://xs650forum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Electrical&action=display&thread=1818

Some Radio Shack rectifiers and a Chrysler regulator. All for about $20.