firing on 2 and 3

[chrismack]

i know this may be a common question but i'm finding answers to all but this problem... i'm leaning towards ignitor failure as the answer but thought maybe you all could voice an opinion... working on an 81 850 and cylinder 2 and 3 have no spark at all... i reversed wiring on coils to verify both would fire... replaced ignitor with a used one from ebay but am now thinking maybe it was bad as well but i thought it was odd that it still is just 2 and 3 that dont fire with either ignitor... i also tried a 12 volt jumper to positive wires on coils to eliminate a voltage drop issue... when i test at the coils without jumper and with ignitor plugged in i am down a couple volts compared to ignitor unplugged

 

[Cipher]

does the 81 850 use and electrical pulse on the end of the crank? If so one coil ( not ignition coil ) might have failed

 

[Cipher]

it seems it does................ there should be a resistance test spec on this in the manual but a simple check to see that the both coils have near identical values should say a lot.

 

[chrismack]

yes thats the style it has and the values test almost identical on each pickup... and just for peace of mind i turned engine over by hand and watched as each pickup was passed by the part that sticks out to activate them and either pickup as it's passed fires the 1-4 coil with nothing at the 2-3 coil... not sure if each one is actually supposed to fire its own coil or not after seeing the way that either pickup fired the same coil... i know i read somewhere that one coil fires on closing of the pickup and the other fires on opening of the pickup if that makes any sense lol...

 

[leftlostcommonsense]

It could be a break in wiring somewhere coming from the 2-3 pickup to the ignitor or between ignitor to 2-3 coil. I chased a problem for the longest and ended up replacing the whole ignition system to find it still wouldn't work. Ended up being a broken wire in the harness coming from the kill switch. Just an idea...If your coils ohm out the same it's more than likely not the coil itself. Either pickup failed, broken wire, or bad coil would be my guess.

 

[chrismack]

wondering about the broken wire theory myself... i used an ohmeter and checked continuity from the plugs at the coils to the plug at the ignitor and they had basically no resistance... but maybe a wire elsewhere in the harness... seriously thinkin of just converting to rhe dyna setup and hoping that solves it...

 

[leftlostcommonsense]

Dyna is the way to go that's where I ended up going with mine. I didn't realize how much I was missing out on until I installed it. It made my bike seem like a whole new beast.

I had 12v at the coils if i unplugged the ignitor but as soon as i plugged in the ignitor I'd only have .5-2v at the coils. My problem affected both coils though. Anyway my problem was a break in the wire coming from the kill switch going back to the coils. The break was maybe 6 inches from the switch so it was covered by the rubber covering that surrounds the wires so I couldn't see it. I guess it touched just enough to read 12v without the load of the ignitor but the ignitor put too much on it and dropped the voltage.

Dyna is basically plug and play just make sure you have good connections and 12v at the coils and you're good to go. ATVGalaxy on ebay was selling the dyna ds3-2 for $112 not too long ago brand new in box factory warranty certified dealer. Get rid of all the components that it could be and get back on the road lol.

The experts here seem skeptical when someone says their ignitor is out so I guess it's not something that happens often. You've tried 2 different ones so you can rule that out I'd say. Just get to checking/cleaning connections and either suspect the pickup or the coil...

 

[chrismack]

my coils do drop in voltage when i check em with the ignitor plugged in but only to about 10.5 volts... so not quite the drop you was seein and both of mine read the same... definately an aggrevating system to diagnose because everything seems ok lol... Dyna will be the next step in solving it for sure... thanks for the advice and i will be checking out atv galaxy when i get home

 

[leftlostcommonsense]

How new is your battery? It really sounds like a connector problem with that much of a drop. Maybe try cleaning all the connectors, open the kill switch and clean those contacts too and of course run your hands along all the wires checking for kinks or breaks. There's a test for checking the pickups on bikecliffs website. I don't have the link but maybe the one side has went bad and not triggering 2/3 so don't rule it out yet.

 

[chrismack]

new battery... been having to put it on charger now of course after so many hours of working on it lol... i've cleaned most of the plugs and made sure they were making contact... i havent checked inside rhe kill switch yet though... but i ordered the dyna s last night so we shall see what happens next lol...

 

[leftlostcommonsense]

Clean up the contacts in the kill switch and any connectors between kill switch and battery, get the dyna, red coming from dyna hooks onto the orange/white coil wire after it passes the kill switch, white and black goes to negative posts on the coils and you're ready to go after timing it. Where you hook into the orange/white wire doesn't matter as long as it's after it goes through the kill switch, don't use the little smash connector they supply with the dyna it's junk and you may want an inline 10 amp fuse between coil wire and red wire on dyna. Just make sure you have 12v after your kill switch and you should be good to go..You can always look into relay mods and stuff too if you want I found I didn't really need it as I had less than half a volt drop between battery and coils just by doing away with the ignitor and wire length and making sure everything was good. Figure out which of the orange white wires is after the kill switch hook to it as close as you can to the kill switch under the tank or whatever and do away with the rest of the wire going all the way back to wherever the ignitor plugged in. I guess what I'm saying is eliminate as many connectors and wire distance as you can. Your wiring may be different than mine though since mine is a 650 it may be a little different but I'm sure you get the point.

If you haven't already, expect charging issues to arise and plan on replacing at the very least the regulator/rectifier. Everyone here is highly pleased with polaris SH775 series. I haven't found one yet but from my research the next best thing is Honda 6 wire regulator/rectifiers it's shunt but better than the original, which is what I have found and for free at that which solved my issues. At the very least you'd do well grounding the original reg/rec directly to the battery post either where the negative wire meets the engine or the battery itself and cleaning/replacing the connectors going from the stator to reg/rec and the output of reg/rec connectors. Lol basically any connector you have either clean or replace it. Look into the stator loop too, you can do away with a good length of wire between one leg of the stator going to the reg/rec in turn having less resistance and connections in between to possibly overheat and fail.

Good Luck...

 

[chrismack]

thanks for all the advice and i will definately have a look at the charging system components while i've got it torn down this far... better now than oit on the road lol... i'm a big fan of shortening and eliminating extra wiring and connections anyway just to avoid future issues ... i'll repost after i get the dyna on it and see how it does

 

[chrismack]

ok so i installed the dyna s and had fire for a couple seconds... now after many hours more of testing and probing and such is seems as though one side of the dyna is bad... how common is this i wonder... i can hook either coil up to my 1,4 pickup and they will fire... i can hook either side up to my 2,3 pickup and nothing... i have even ran a 12v jumper straight to coil plug and ran external wires from the dyna to bypass all of the factory wiring on the bike... probably have 30 hours in this thing now or more and i am pretty much at wits end....

 

[Cipher]

so you upgraded to a dyna and had spark on all then lost it? Id seriously check plug caps.

 

[Guest]

You will not get an electronic ignition to fire properly or at all with 10.5 volts. There is a voltage threshold where they fail. I have had my Dyna fail because of that until I corrected the voltage drop.

 

[chrismack]

heres another part of the equation lol... i can hook my 2,3 coil up to the 1,4 wires from the dyna and then that coil will fire.. i even went clear back to the initial install instructions and where dyna has you use a test light while setting the initial timing, now the light wont light up at all on the 2,3 pickup whereas it did light up when i timed it the first time.....