Fuel Injection Conversion?

[rhoff71]

This may be a dumb question but a thought came to me the other day.
Are there kits to convert from carbs to fuel injection systems on these old
bikes? And if so, is it just too much $$$ or effort?

 

[ArttuH]

I don't know any bolt-on kits but it can be done. I have installed Megasquirt based injection on my GS1100 and it didn't cost much, less than set of new carbs. Ofcourse it required some effort but not enormous amounts.

Here are some pictures and details of my installation if you are interested:
http://www.students.tut.fi/~heinala/mopo/en_summary.html

Check also the finnish pages for more pictures:
http://www.students.tut.fi/~heinala/mopo/
http://www.students.tut.fi/~heinala/mopo/sivu2.html
http://www.students.tut.fi/~heinala/mopo/sivu3.html
http://www.students.tut.fi/~heinala/mopo/sivu4.html

 

[outofcontrol]

This is amazing to me.
I wish I could read Finnish.
ArttuH,
Are you a mechanic, or could a back yard wrench thrower like myself do this?

I am going to read more about this. looks like an awesome mod.

-Kevin

 

[Guest]

I was thinking the same until I noticed the English translation on the lower left. Ray

 

[sidd]

I've heard good things about the megasquirt system. I've been thinking about doing the conversion myself for some time.

 

[outofcontrol]

I'm missing the translation button.

I see an "english summary" one page, but no translation of the 4 pages of discription.

I thought Google has a way to translate whole pages to english, but I can't find it. anyone?

-Kevin

 

[fastpakr]

I've actually got an MS board ready, just need to find time and the rest of the injection hardware. It'll probably be late this year if not next before I really start fiddling with this much.

 

[outofcontrol]

http://www.msefi.com/viewforum.php?f=54&sid=1ce4af5df7c9ce95eb07076c1b4aa4a6

forum on EFI

www.msefi.com

 

[sidd]

http://www.megasquirt.info/index.html

the FAQ/Manual for the MegaSquirt system.

 

[ArttuH]

This is amazing to me.
I wish I could read Finnish.
ArttuH,
Are you a mechanic, or could a back yard wrench thrower like myself do this?

I am going to read more about this. looks like an awesome mod.

-Kevin

Well, I should spend some time by writing a bit longer story in English. The pages are also somewhat outdated. For example at this moment the ignition is also controlled by Megasquirt.

Mechanical part of installation isn't too challenging. If you can swap the carbs you can do this. The trick is to select right parts. These Kawi throttle bodies were good choise. They are almost drop-in replacement for the carbs.

And you don't need extesive electronical skills either. You can buy assembled Megasquirt unit and there is pretty good manual for unit and installation. And this msefi.com forum is very useful source of information. Some basic knowledge about electrical systems of bikes/cars is very helpfull. But if something goes wrong it would be nice to know something about electronics.

msefi.com and megasquirt.info are very good places to get more information. Even if you plan to install some other (commercial) injection system. And I'm happy to tell more about my project if you have more questions.

 

[AOD]

I've done custom EFI work on motorcycle engines in the past and I really only see a few 'bigger' challenges to converting these bikes to EFI.

1. The fuel system needs to be converted to a high pressure system, with a pump.

2. You need to install a crank position sensor to trigger fuel injectors and ignition. Typically you would remove the original ignitor and modify it to become a crank position sensor.

3. Throttle bodies size/fit to the older engine.

4. Tuning - you need someone fairly experienced and a dyno to tune it properly.

~Adam

 

[tkent02]

I am currently MSing an old BMW car, bike should be similar...

I am currently MSing an old BMW car, bike should be similar...

maybe a bit more challenging to get everything to fit into a small space, and maybe a bit of a challenge to get the throttles etc. all figured out but it should be doable.

 

[isaac]

Arttu, thank you so much for writing about your MS system. I've Megasquirted my car with good results, and am strongly considering doing this to my GS850.

I have a few questions about your system:

Where did you put the coolant temperature sensor? Where did you put the air temperature sensor? Did you use one of the ignition coil terminals as an RPM signal for the Megasquirt computer? How have you tuned the bike with the system? Did you do all your tuning on a dyno? Thanks for the help!

 

[ArttuH]

The coolant temp sensor is under one of valve cover bolts. Air temp sensor is placed inside air filter pod. Yes, I took RPM signal from one of the coils when I was using fuel injection only. For ignition I installed a trigger wheel on the place of the original ignition trigger.

Tuning was quite long process. At first I just played with settings to get the bike running some way. Then I made several datalogging runs with laptop. Between runs I made tuning according datalogs. An O2 sensor is essential for this. And wideband O2 would be much more helpfull. When I got the bike running through whole RPM range without bogging I booked time to dyno. In dyno it took only one hour to get the engine in pretty good tune. Full throttle tuning is very difficult without dyno but otherwise you can tune it pretty fine with datalogs.

 

[Guest]

Fi?

Fi?

While the aftermarket is got most covered in the FI, You can use the Kawasaki GPZ1100 system. Throttle bodies pop right on even if they are a little small and the complete system can be gotten cheap. Just tune with resistors and fuel pressure if it's close to stock.
Hardest part is finding a place for the cylinder head temp sending unit.

 

[retrex]

EFI questions

EFI questions

I don't know any bolt-on kits but it can be done. I have installed Megasquirt based injection on my GS1100 and it didn't cost much, less than set of new carbs. Ofcourse it required some effort but not enormous amounts.

Here are some pictures and details of my installation if you are interested:
http://www.students.tut.fi/~heinala/mopo/en_summary.html

Hi ArttuH, first I would like to thank you for an interesting post. I am looking at the two graphs depicted in the above link and I have a question or two regarding them. The second, or right graph, can you tell us what it is saying? It is very difficult to read. I assume it is a HP/Torque vs RPM. How does it compare to the baseline one on the left? Second have you ridden the bike with the EFI and what are your findings?

 

[Nerobro]

Shhh.. don't tell earlfor, But I have injectors, pump, and FPR coming for one of the 550's in my house ;-)

 

[ArttuH]

Hi ArttuH, first I would like to thank you for an interesting post. I am looking at the two graphs depicted in the above link and I have a question or two regarding them. The second, or right graph, can you tell us what it is saying? It is very difficult to read. I assume it is a HP/Torque vs RPM. How does it compare to the baseline one on the left? Second have you ridden the bike with the EFI and what are your findings?

Hi, both graphs are backwheel power/torque vs backwheel speed. Black curves are power in kW (=1.36HP). If you take a close look on the curves you will see few crosses on them, numbers are measured only at these points so don't pay too much attention on curve shape.

Left graph is stock bike, KN filter in air box, jetted, restrictive 4-1 exhaust. Right graph is with the EFI, very slight porting, home-made free flowing 4-1 exhaust. With these modifications maximum power increased by 14HP, from 95 to 109. Low- and mid-end power increased even more.

By this far I have ridden with the EFI about 20000 km and two seasons. Increased torque is very noticeable and nice in everyday riding. Fuel mileage is pretty much the same than with carbs, a bit more or less depending on tuning.

At this moment I'm installing a turbo on the bike. Let's see how it will affect