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HELP! Particles in engine / head gasket troubles

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
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Anonymous

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HELP! I have a 1982 GS850GLZ with 15,000 miles. I replaced the cylinder head gasket (the one that covers the camshafts). The old gasket was really, really tough and I spent about three hours scraping the rock-hard old one off with razor blades.

Unfortunately, several very, very tiny pieces and a couple fairly large (1/2 inch) chunks of the old gasket fell into the engine and I couldn't get them out!

Upon putting the bike back together, it sounded fine when it ran, but soon smoke started pouring out of the seams of the engine!!! I turned the bike off immediately as to not damage the motor.

Tomorrow, I'm going to do about three oil changes to try to flush out the particles. Are there any suggestions to get the particles out of the engine so I don't destroy it? I really am worried here!
 
I think a key point here is how big a piece fell where? Did you block up an oil return that allows oil to flow from the head back down? Where exactly is smoke pouring from the motor?
 
The smoke is pouring not just from the head gasket, but also from all of the major seams in the engine.

The two larger pieces fell in beside the camshafts and presumably further down toward the cylinder or even the crankcases.

I'm afraid to even turn the motor on at this point!
 
If you just remove the cam cover and not the cylinder head. Then no gasket is going to get inside the cylinders. Worst case is they dropped inside the timing chain tunnel and whats left of them may get chewed up by the crank timing chain sprocket. Or they just get trapped below the crankshaft anyway they should'nt cause any problems.

Just get a flashlite and look down the tunnel and use a coat hanger or tape on the end of a stick to pickup any loose pieces. I like to use the wife's vaccum cleaner with a 3/8 hose taped to the pickup hose and just stick it all around there. Also check around the valve springs, rockers and oil return holes for pieces too.

Your oil leak is most likely the cam cover gasket is not seated right, cracked or loose cover bolts.

Next time don't forget to use some rags or paper towels jammed in all the holes :oops:
 
Re: HELP! Particles in engine / head gasket troubles

I take it you mean you replaced the valve cover gasket. Removing the valve cover doesnt leave any opening into the cylinders. The only place gasket chips can fall is into the cam chain tunnel. They should flush out of there and be found in the oil pan.There is a screen on the oil pump pickup, so chips should not get into the oil passages to block anything internally.
I would drain the oil and then remove the oil pan to get any chips/sediment out of the engine. I will assume you vacumed any loose debris off the top of the cylinderhead around the camshafts and valves, or picked it out. Its best to always leave an engine clean when youre finished working on it. For whatever its worth (kinda like closing the gate after the horse is out), I stuff some clean rags around the cam chain tunnel whever I am working and there is a possibility of something being dropped or falling into the cam chain tunnel.

You will likely need a new oil pan gasket to reinstall the oil pan. Do not over torque the bolts, Tighter is NOT better. Its the gasket that forms the seal. Loctite the bolts with blue loctite when you install them.

I dont think you have caused any great harm with the gasket pieces, but they do need to come out. :-)


Earl

Thunderchicken said:
HELP! I have a 1982 GS850GLZ with 15,000 miles. I replaced the cylinder head gasket (the one that covers the camshafts). The old gasket was really, really tough and I spent about three hours scraping the rock-hard old one off with razor blades.

Unfortunately, several very, very tiny pieces and a couple fairly large (1/2 inch) chunks of the old gasket fell into the engine and I couldn't get them out!

Upon putting the bike back together, it sounded fine when it ran, but soon smoke started pouring out of the seams of the engine!!! I turned the bike off immediately as to not damage the motor.

Tomorrow, I'm going to do about three oil changes to try to flush out the particles. Are there any suggestions to get the particles out of the engine so I don't destroy it? I really am worried here!
Click to expand...
 
stuff

stuff

The gasket pieces are more than likely in the crankshaft well and not in the oil pan, you can take the pan off but you probably wont have gotten lucky enough to have had the crank kick it back into the oil pan, but cleaning all the crap you will find in the pan is always a good Idea, please tell me you DID'NT run the engine for a long time with out a fan or two cooling the engine, if you did then your smoking may have been the engine over heating, as earl said always pack the cam chain tunnel with rags not with paper towels cause they leave alot of fuzzys behind witch can plug the intake screen ( don't ask how I know this ) its very fine mesh also dont remove the intake screen in most cases the screws are way to tight and will round off even with an impact driver but there again you may get lucky, if you pull the pan and then loosen the filter, oil will flow back thru the screen back flushing it, you will find metal particles and mud witch is clutch material, and maybe some yellow paint off of the rod markings, this is normal so dont panic
 
As already said, it is not a good idea to run the engine without a cooling fan on it. My general rule is to put my bare hand on the cooling fins about every 30 seconds after starting the engine. When the fins have heated to a point I am no longer able to hold my hand on them indefinitely, I shut it down. With a fan and at idle rpm, that can take a while. If reving the engine, the working time before overheating can be very short.

Earl
 
RacingJake said:
I like to use the wife's vaccum cleaner with a 3/8 hose taped to the pickup hose and just stick it all around there. s :oops:
Click to expand...

Does the missus know about this trick?
 
Did you find out where the smoke is comeing from yet? maybe when you removed and replaced the valve cover gasket you may have got the valve cover gasket disloged and there maybe an oil leak that is smoking on the cylinder head as it heats up, how about the half moon rubber end seals (4 of them) at the ends of each camshaft did you replace them or use a thin bead of silicone rubber on them when you put it back together?
On the top of the valve cover there is a breather cover did you renew it with a new gasket or did you make a new one? that could be a source for oil leakage or if you made one did you make it with the holes in it just like the original, if the holes are not in it pressure will build up in the engine and it has to escape somewhere.
Just trying to give some help, don't over look the obvious....

You'll get it fixed DON'T give up !
 
For smoke to be "pouring out" of all the seams on the engine, all the gaskets would have had to blow, never seen it happen. This would have needed a lot of pressure to build up in the engine, blocking the crankcase vent could cause this but you would have noticed some major oil leaks. I can't imagine some small pieces of gasket blocking this off, or how a large piece could get up on the opening. The engine should not produce enough smoke internally for you to see it as pouring unless it is so hot the oil is vaporizing and burning. It has been asked, did the engine get hot? This is your major worry. Clean out the pan and the oil screen, even with some gasket stuck to it there should still be enough oilflow to lube the engine.
 
Crankcase pressure could build up if the square oil breather plate on top of the valve cover was removed, reinstalled backwards and the closed portion of the gasket crimped over the breather opening and the plate bolted down.

Earl

Clone said:
For smoke to be "pouring out" of all the seams on the engine, all the gaskets would have had to blow, never seen it happen.
Click to expand...
 
Make sure teh breather tube is not kinked as that could also cause backpressure to build up. There are two 5/16" holes in the breather gasket that alow air to flow , if you made a gasket did you open up two holes? If you bought a gasket, maybe they needed to be punched out.
 
Yeah, youre probably right. It would take some serious blowby to blow smoke through the crankcase seams. LOL

Earl

RacingJake said:
If you have that much blowby you got other major problems like ring seal.
Click to expand...
 
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, BUT, the breather on the valve cover is an air intake, the outgoing crankcase vent is behind the cylinders on top of the crankcase, this vents to the airbox, yes, no? I can't be sure but that is what I remember, maybe I got my bikes mixed up.
Smoke is another problem.
 
Just my thinking here...
air box pressure is lower than the outside air pressure so... there would be a higher pressure in the crankcase hence it would go from the breather to the air box, they put baffles in the breather housing and 2 screens to keep the oil out of the air filter housing and 2 drain back holes in it also. IMO. Dale
 
It is necessary to vent the crankase because you do have a little bit of pressure caused by blowby. you also have all of those metal objects (like pistons) flying around in there creating air pressure. The vent system used on most bikes is the road draft system. This was used in cars before 1963 and used a tube that pointed rearward. Gases were drawn out of the engine as you drove. The Suzukis use a similar method. Modern cars and even small lawnmowers today use a PCV valve, a Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve to draw gases into the engine where they are burned. This is great for the environment but not always so great for getting the best mixture, it must be compensated for accordingly.
 
Okay, the problem seems to be fixed now.

Problem one: Malfunctioning torque wrench caused me to overtighten the head cover bolts, destroying the seal. There was some of the smoke.

Problem two: I had managed to leak a fair amount of oil all over the engine. When the engine heated up, the stuff started burning like crazy, producing tons of smoke.

I bought a new torque wrench, which also didn't work right (a setting of fifteen foot pounds tightened to around sixty or so), so I just estimated and snugged the bolts down without a torque wrench as evenly as I could and then cleaned up the oil. Everything worked fine, no burning smell, no smoke.

It scared the heck out of me when it happened, though.
 
Glad to see it worked out. I had a oil smell on my 650 for a few days after I did the valve adjustment, had me looking at the valve cover during redlights a bit.
 
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