Dogma
Forum Sage
About those bushings.... They don't seem to be on the fiche. Who's best for tracking these down if I can get them on the phone? Flatout? Z1?
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Leaky fork advice
- Thread starter Dogma
- Start date
About those bushings.... They don't seem to be on the fiche. Who's best for tracking these down if I can get them on the phone? Flatout? Z1?
Dogma
Forum Sage
Get them rechromed and you wont have any more problems.Do a bodge job and you'll be pulling them again when you'd rather be riding.Cheers,Simon.
Yeah, I hear that. I think I'll have a look at the stanchions on the parts bike and see what I can do. I'd like to try the temp fix on one set, and send the other for re-chrome. I just got back into town this afternoon. I'll have a look at those other forks when I get out the mower tomorrow evening.
G
Guest
Guest
read this thread............ http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=129877&highlight=fork+bushings
#5 and #22 on last page
#5 and #22 on last page
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Dogma
Forum Sage
Thanks, but neither of those appear on the 850L fiche. #22 doesn't even appear in my fork. There is something like #5 in my fork, though. Just not on the fiche.
T
TheCafeKid
Guest
Rage is pretty good with those forks, at least he fixed MRiddles forks on his 83 1100 E and THOSE are odd balls with the antidive system. Maybe if you need some help we could talk him into taking a look when he has time, you guys dont live that far apart...
Dogma
Forum Sage
Oh? How 'bout it Rage? can I bring 'em by?
G
Guest
Guest
You want to do them here? No problem, just need to reorganize the shop right now as I just reduced my storage and brought a bunch of stuff in. Boat is going so that will clear an entire side out pretty much.
What I've learned:
When the seal lip is gone they will leak like crazy causing it to run like any oil leak. Normal wear is something different in that just leaves a weep ring on the inner. Sometimes the culprit isn't the inner or the seal, it's the outers cavity for the seal. If someone used a hard tool like a screw driver to "dig" the seal out of the cavity then they probably scratched the cavity wall. That can be a pain to fix and will leak worse than any other cause.
The upper and lower bushings can wear but it is pretty rare to see them be anything more than scuffed a bit. Running the forks dry would be a good way to accelerate the wear. Depending on fork design the top one can be nearly impossible to get out with out something getting scratched.
Yes, they are hard chrome plated but that just means the chrome is thick enough to be measured by a hardness meter, same chrome that is on your fender, gauge covers, etc. just more of it. Chrome looks like a dry lake bed when you look at it under a high powered scope. The trick is to dip the part several times in the chrome to bring it to the proper thickness and to try and prevent the tiny cracks from lining up to the base metal which will still have a coat to two coats of nickel or copper to try to protect it and provide adhesion for the chrome. Sort of like when you roof a house. The proper plating process is what gets the thickness close to spec., most are 4-5 thousands for what is referred to as hard chrome.
What can happen is that water or salt can get to the base metal typically, once corrosion starts it's over, no matter what there will be a pit. If the chrome is peeling then it was bad from the factory, pitting is prolonged environmental exposure. I'm not a big fan of gaiters as once the crud/water/salt gets in behind them it usually just accumulates there and makes matters worse. They have to "breath" to collapse and expand without looking like a balloon so that's the pumping action that brings in the bad but doesn't seem to get it all out. Proper fitting boots and regular cleaning behind them is something I'd recommend with them.
If you polish or buff them out so the "pucker lip" of the pit is brought down to the same height as the good chrome you're still left with a low spot. Oil will find the path of least resistance and weep out, the more of them you have the more the weep. Leave the pucker lip and the chrome will cut the lip of the seal each time it passes over the pit, before long it will be a blob of oil that will run down the fork outer if you are lucky.
Not much can be done to save the tube if it is pretty bad. You need to stop the corrosion first, you might try some vinegar bath of the affected area. It will kill the rust underneath temporarily. Neutralize it and then you can try an epoxy to fill the pit after you buff/sand the pucker out. Be sure the fill is no higher or lower than the surface. Re-plating is expensive but if no replacements are to be had then it might be your only option. Instead of trying to work with a plater yourself you might try a hydraulic repair house that is big enough to do cylinder rebuilds. They know which platers understand thickness standards and who won't short you with cheap single nickel or copper, sure they will make some money on it too but unless you know your plater you're in for a bad experience when dealing with most platers. It might be a while before you get it back though as they might want to throw it in with another piston rod set off of a Cat or something to get a better price.
What I've learned:
When the seal lip is gone they will leak like crazy causing it to run like any oil leak. Normal wear is something different in that just leaves a weep ring on the inner. Sometimes the culprit isn't the inner or the seal, it's the outers cavity for the seal. If someone used a hard tool like a screw driver to "dig" the seal out of the cavity then they probably scratched the cavity wall. That can be a pain to fix and will leak worse than any other cause.
The upper and lower bushings can wear but it is pretty rare to see them be anything more than scuffed a bit. Running the forks dry would be a good way to accelerate the wear. Depending on fork design the top one can be nearly impossible to get out with out something getting scratched.
Yes, they are hard chrome plated but that just means the chrome is thick enough to be measured by a hardness meter, same chrome that is on your fender, gauge covers, etc. just more of it. Chrome looks like a dry lake bed when you look at it under a high powered scope. The trick is to dip the part several times in the chrome to bring it to the proper thickness and to try and prevent the tiny cracks from lining up to the base metal which will still have a coat to two coats of nickel or copper to try to protect it and provide adhesion for the chrome. Sort of like when you roof a house. The proper plating process is what gets the thickness close to spec., most are 4-5 thousands for what is referred to as hard chrome.
What can happen is that water or salt can get to the base metal typically, once corrosion starts it's over, no matter what there will be a pit. If the chrome is peeling then it was bad from the factory, pitting is prolonged environmental exposure. I'm not a big fan of gaiters as once the crud/water/salt gets in behind them it usually just accumulates there and makes matters worse. They have to "breath" to collapse and expand without looking like a balloon so that's the pumping action that brings in the bad but doesn't seem to get it all out. Proper fitting boots and regular cleaning behind them is something I'd recommend with them.
If you polish or buff them out so the "pucker lip" of the pit is brought down to the same height as the good chrome you're still left with a low spot. Oil will find the path of least resistance and weep out, the more of them you have the more the weep. Leave the pucker lip and the chrome will cut the lip of the seal each time it passes over the pit, before long it will be a blob of oil that will run down the fork outer if you are lucky.
Not much can be done to save the tube if it is pretty bad. You need to stop the corrosion first, you might try some vinegar bath of the affected area. It will kill the rust underneath temporarily. Neutralize it and then you can try an epoxy to fill the pit after you buff/sand the pucker out. Be sure the fill is no higher or lower than the surface. Re-plating is expensive but if no replacements are to be had then it might be your only option. Instead of trying to work with a plater yourself you might try a hydraulic repair house that is big enough to do cylinder rebuilds. They know which platers understand thickness standards and who won't short you with cheap single nickel or copper, sure they will make some money on it too but unless you know your plater you're in for a bad experience when dealing with most platers. It might be a while before you get it back though as they might want to throw it in with another piston rod set off of a Cat or something to get a better price.
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Dogma
Forum Sage
Wow. Thanks for the brain dump. From what you describe, it sounds like I should be able to arrest the corrosion, buff it smooth, and fill it back in. I'd really appreciate having an experienced eye look them over though, and maybe lend a hand with the repair, if it requires a special touch. I don't want to use up any more of your time than is necessary. When would be a good time to bring them over? I don't have the replacement seals, etc. yet, so we're only looking at checking things over and maybe doing work on the stanchions, if you're willing. Reassembly I can handle when I have the parts.