Need Charging System Help

[gbw]

So sense wire hooked to brakelight switch ?

Yes

- R/R positive output into harness or direct via inline fuse to battery positive?

direct to the battery. Might be a fuse inline but might not.

make sure R/R ground wire (green?) has good connection to battery negative.

negative is directly connected to the battery

This 13 volts at 5k- is this measured at battery?

measured across the battery

Also measure the voltage the R/R is putting out, from the very same place where the R/R is putting it out : From The R/R output to the R/R negitive. If this is not the same as what you are measuring acrost the battery, then there is a problem in connections between the R/R and the battery.

R/R positive and negative leads are connected directly to the battery. So I'm not sure how to measure the R/R output and battery voltage separately.

Check for voltage between the battery- and R/R negitive, should be about zero, if not then bad connection, maybe where battery box grounded by the black/white wire or the black/white wire is not really a good groound.

Again, R/R neg connected directly to battery.

Tell us about the scense line. Where is that connected? If it is a Dunnage R/R, it came with connectors to connect into the rear brake power line, which is a good place because it is somewaht close to battery but yet gets powered down when bike is off. If it is there I can not see any problem there causing you Low battery voltage. (although a problem there can cause High battery voltage).

This is a Duannage R/R and the sense is connected to the brake switch. The voltage at the switch is very nearly the same as the voltage at the battery.

As a test; disconenct the scense line. That will make the R/R think voltage is real low, and then R/R crank out as much as it can, like maybe 16. This is just a quick test to prove that the stator can put out the power. Only do it for a portin of a minute.

Duannage suggested the same thing. I'll give this a try later. I'm sure I've done this test before but it was probably a year or two ago so I don't remember the outcome.

Front end. MAn. Knew about the charging problem,... and the clutch plates ... and now front end, what is that about? New tire? (did I miss something?)

Installed Racetech springs and cartridge emulators.
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=192408

 

[Redman]

Yes
direct to the battery. Might be a fuse inline but might not.

negative is directly connected to the battery

measured across the battery


R/R positive and negative leads are connected directly to the battery. So I'm not sure how to measure the R/R output and battery voltage separately.


Again, R/R neg connected directly to battery.


This is a Duannage R/R and the sense is connected to the brake switch. The voltage at the switch is very nearly the same as the voltage at the battery.

....

Greg,

Ah, so the R/R output is connected directly to the battery. So when you measure the battery voltage you are measuring the R/R output, they are one in the same - - unless bad connection betwween them, where you can not get a meter. If there was a bad connection, the connection would be heating up.

So, that leaves the scence line, the stator connections, or the stator itself.
Scence line seems okay, if you say is reading about same as battery.
And stator is new.
Are stator connections getting warm?

Hum, wonder if battery has some internal problem.
Is the battery a fluid type with the caps? or a sealed battery? SOmetimes if it called sealed, it still has caps just under some cover with a lable across the top. Check the fluid level. Let me know if it is a fluid type (i'll check back later).

 

[gbw]

Are stator connections getting warm?

hmmm...not that I noticed but I don't touch them often while the bike is running. I'll check.

Hum, wonder if battery has some internal problem.
Is the battery a fluid type with the caps? or a sealed battery? SOmetimes if it called sealed, it still has caps just under some cover with a lable across the top. Check the fluid level. Let me know if it is a fluid type (i'll check back later).

Battery is a fairly new, sealed AGM gel type battery. No fluids to check.

You can see I've been around this block a few times and replaced everything I can think of in the charging system. Very frustrating that I can't solve this problem.

I won't get a chance to work on the bike again until tomorrow afternoon, but I do these tests and some Duannage suggested and report back.

Thanks for your continued interest in my electrical troubles.

 

[salty_monk]

Greg I take it you've taken the headlight loop out of the mix? (The extra wire that takes one leg of stator up to headlight on/off switch & back)

Just a shot in the dark...

 

[gbw]

Greg I take it you've taken the headlight loop out of the mix? (The extra wire that takes one leg of stator up to headlight on/off switch & back)

Just a shot in the dark...

No. I haven't done that. The 77 actually has an on/off switch for the headlight that I like to be able to use. If you really think that could be the problem I could bypass that temporarily to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks for the idea!

 

[tom203]

No. I haven't done that. The 77 actually has an on/off switch for the headlight that I like to be able to use. If you really think that could be the problem I could bypass that temporarily to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks for the idea!

The on/off switch will still work- all you'd be doing is eliminating the stator loop. Do you run without headlight on ?

 

[Killer2600]

No. I haven't done that. The 77 actually has an on/off switch for the headlight that I like to be able to use. If you really think that could be the problem I could bypass that temporarily to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks for the idea!

The on/off switch will still work- all you'd be doing is eliminating the stator loop. Do you run without headlight on ?

I can't speak for Illinois but in Michigan and many other states you MUST have a functioning headlight on while riding day or night. So for many the on/off switch is mostly obsolete and useless.

 

[salty_monk]

No. I haven't done that. The 77 actually has an on/off switch for the headlight that I like to be able to use. If you really think that could be the problem I could bypass that temporarily to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks for the idea!

On a 550 that I rebuilt for a friend it was the WHOLE problem. It also made substantial difference on my Skunk. If it's the same it's on bullet connectors & can be plugged in/unplugged really easily. Just unplug both ends of the loop & join the stator directly to the RR. The other two are now dead (I plugged them together just to keep them clean/tidy) & do nothing.

Took the voltage on that bike from 12.8-13v to 13.6-13.8v.

The headlight switch will still work fine but you shouldn't run too far/too long with the headlight switched off as you risk cooking the stator (as it will have to dissipate the 55-60w that would have been sunk into the headlight as heat.

Having said that it's really useful if you have a low battery or are sitting around at idle a lot (your classes for example) as you could switch the headlight off & gain yourself a charging boost at idle (i.e. it would boost the idle voltage going into the battery by a percentage of a volt (prob 0.2 - 0.5v I would think)).

I also run with it like this on my Skunk.

 

[tom203]

I can't speak for Illinois but in Michigan and many other states you MUST have a functioning headlight on while riding day or night. So for many the on/off switch is mostly obsolete and useless.

Yeah, but I turn my headlight off when cold starting; plus if my onboard voltmeter shows charging problems. I can switch it off and count on another 30 minutes to flee homeward. My first year back riding, I was unaware of light rule, rode whole summer in blissful ignorance .

 

[Killer2600]

Yeah, but I turn my headlight off when cold starting; plus if my onboard voltmeter shows charging problems. I can switch it off and count on another 30 minutes to flee homeward. My first year back riding, I was unaware of light rule, rode whole summer in blissful ignorance .

You've spent a long time off the saddle then, the law took effect the same time suzuki and all the others axed the on/off switch (actually they axed it because of the law).

 

[tom203]

You've spent a long time off the saddle then, the law took effect the same time suzuki and all the others axed the on/off switch (actually they axed it because of the law).

Yep, I fell off saddle in 1978, didn't pay much attention to bike stuff. I pondered why some states would not require helmets, yet lights had to be on- apparently they wanted easier targets.

 

[gbw]

Ok. You talked me into it. I'll go pull it after dinner tonight and see what I see. If I can go from 12.8 to 13.8 by just pulling that I'll be a happy man.

On a 550 that I rebuilt for a friend it was the WHOLE problem. It also made substantial difference on my Skunk. If it's the same it's on bullet connectors & can be plugged in/unplugged really easily. Just unplug both ends of the loop & join the stator directly to the RR. The other two are now dead (I plugged them together just to keep them clean/tidy) & do nothing.

Took the voltage on that bike from 12.8-13v to 13.6-13.8v.

The headlight switch will still work fine but you shouldn't run too far/too long with the headlight switched off as you risk cooking the stator (as it will have to dissipate the 55-60w that would have been sunk into the headlight as heat.

Having said that it's really useful if you have a low battery or are sitting around at idle a lot (your classes for example) as you could switch the headlight off & gain yourself a charging boost at idle (i.e. it would boost the idle voltage going into the battery by a percentage of a volt (prob 0.2 - 0.5v I would think)).

I also run with it like this on my Skunk.

 

[salty_monk]

Fingers crossed then...

 

[gbw]

As always, this is crazy.

So I removed the headlight loop. That was easy.

The bike charged to 15.25 VDC. Hurray!!! But isn't that too high?

So, then I think...could that loop REALLY make THAT much difference? So I plug the loop back in.

Then the bike charged to 15.20 VDC. WTF???

Maybe some crappy connection in that loop has been my problem all the time.

But...isn't 15.25 VDC too much? Will I toast my battery?

As I said, crazy...at one moment it isn't charging enough and now its charging too much Just my luck.

 

[tom203]

Yeah, that's too high; please check your multimeter on something else to be sure.

 

[Killer2600]

As always, this is crazy.

So I removed the headlight loop. That was easy.

The bike charged to 15.25 VDC. Hurray!!! But isn't that too high?

So, then I think...could that loop REALLY make THAT much difference? So I plug the loop back in.

Then the bike charged to 15.20 VDC. WTF???

Maybe some crappy connection in that loop has been my problem all the time.

But...isn't 15.25 VDC too much? Will I toast my battery?

As I said, crazy...at one moment it isn't charging enough and now its charging too much Just my luck.

Turn your headlight ON, what's the voltage at the battery then?

 

[gbw]

Turn your headlight ON, what's the voltage at the battery then?

The 15.25 was with the headlight ON.

I just went out for a little ride just to make sure the bike would run ok for my trip this weekend. Everything seems good.

When I got back I checked the voltage again and it going between 13 and 13.5. But then the bike died. My guess is I let it get too hot while sitting in my garage running at 5k rpm. I'll let it cool off and check again later.

So, assuming it starts again, I should be good. I'll keep an eye on it over the weekend as we ride around Wisconsin. I'd like to mount some kind of voltage meter to the bike so I can keep an eye on it.

Thanks for all the help.

Greg

 

[gbw]

So fortunately I didn't destroy my motorcycle. Turns out it hit the reserve level on fuel at the same time I was running it to 5k measuring voltages. That is why it sputter to a stop during my testing...not that it overheated (I hope).

I do need to pick up a box fan for the garage though.

 

[salty_monk]

The 13.5v seems encouraging... If it stays at the 15v level then check your sense wire connections!