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Output flange rpm on gs1100g..???

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mark Harrop
  • Start date Start date
MissFabulous said:
But at the 90 degree angle, it's not going to sit like an inline, almost more like a V twin. Sorta. The weight will be front to back, assuming that is the forcing mechanism behind the desire to lean. If it's just torque madness, the lean would probably be based more on how well balanced the rider stays and that the pants-crapping doesn't make the rider slide to the right or left, causing radical leaning one way or the other :eek: I've always felt like torque wants to stand the bike straight up, but that's me and I don't spend any time at 100mph. I'm only half as crazy as Mark. Maybe not even ;) Other than the rider, the weight is in the engine. An I-4 has it distributed more east west, while turning 90 degrees it brings it north-south in relation to the frame. Depending on what Mark does to avoid burned legs/reduced weight from exhaust, that is. My guess would be that it will make the bike feel lighter, and be more wheelie-inducing.
Click to expand...

MissFab...open the hood of your car and have someone rev the engine.
Watch how the motor twists over one way against the mounts.
It twists over on the line of the crank shaft.
Now put a motor in a bike with the crank inline front to back, like your car and it will do the same thing...only not on rubber mounts, so it will push the whole bike over one way....

A V-twin still has the crank 90? out from the center line of the bike...
 
Baatfam said:
A V-twin still has the crank 90? out from the center line of the bike...
Click to expand...
Well, ... most V-twins do. Think Honda CX500/650 and Moto Guzzi, they have their cylinders splayed to the sides, leaving the crank in-line. Yes, they had torque reaction issues, too. BMW riders have learned to lean a bit when they take off. I think Wing riders are the only ones basically unaffected because Honda turns all the other shafts in the opposite direction to counteract the torque effect.

.
 
Steve said:
Well, ... most V-twins do. Think Honda CX500/650 and Moto Guzzi, they have their cylinders splayed to the sides, leaving the crank in-line. Yes, they had torque reaction issues, too. BMW riders have learned to lean a bit when they take off. I think Wing riders are the only ones basically unaffected because Honda turns all the other shafts in the opposite direction to counteract the torque effect.

.
Click to expand...

Good point...forgot about the Guzzis. Thanks!:D
 
Why exactly do you want to use a GS engine? Does it have to be air cooled? It seems like you are really making this needlessly complicated. Take a four cylinder engine out of any car and you're good to go.
 
drhach said:
Why exactly do you want to use a GS engine? Does it have to be air cooled? It seems like you are really making this needlessly complicated. Take a four cylinder engine out of any car and you're good to go.
Click to expand...

Yea...old and air cooled. Remember, I also plan on winning an "old-school" chopper show after the race. Sure, I could use a car enging, but then it wouldn't really be a motorcycle.
Since this is pretty much a "harley" dominated event, I want to beat them at their own game. Using a GS engine in an unconventional manner will assure me victory. Especially if it is reminiscent of those old Indian inline 4s. I gotta one-up the Kamikaze!
rw_show_070720_1m-1.jpg

Plus the GS motor is a natural...good power and reliability....and I want to get some notoriety for the GSR community!

As far as the output flange, I was thinking of running a support bearing (like they use on dragbikes) to remove the load....good point.
 
As far as torque reaction, I know it will be an issue, but I won't be launching hard. I plan on getting up to speed smoothly...so I can deal with it.

This is a purpose built machine for winning a transcontinental race and a chopper show. Since everything will be rigidly mounted, I also wanted a smooth running motor. I've ridden bikes with torque-lean, so I know what to expect.

There is an old saying "nothing is new in chopperdom, its all been done before"

Well, if anyone has done this with a shafty four cylinder, I've never seen it, but that doesn't mean doodly-squat. Has anyone ever seen a contraption like I'm planning?
 
Torque reaction shouldn't be a big deal...rode one of those cursed Boss-Hoss' for a year w/SBC 355hp/300lb/ft tq. Going straight down the highway wasn't bad at all...just don't whack the throttle mid-way through a curve. Looks like a cool project! Hope you pull it off!
 
Mark Harrop said:
....Sure, I could use a car enging, but then it wouldn't really be a motorcycle.
...
Click to expand...


From Webster's Dictionary...

Main Entry:
mo?tor?cy?cle
Pronunciation:
\ˈmō-tər-ˌsī-kəl\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
motor bicycle
Date:
1896

: a 2-wheeled automotive vehicle for one or two people

Best of luck.
 
:pray:Mark Mark Mark, the only chance you have is if you fabricate a large ugly cooling shroud. without it the engine will over heat and seize up and likely burst into flames.

the old Henderson's and Indians and several other in-line 4's made back in the early days had at best 30hp, and even then they had problems with over heating the back cylinders. that is why they went the way of the hard tail, it don't work and is un-safe.

know how many people lived to tell their adventure of running 100mph on a motorcycle with no suspension? not very many.

please reconsider, we don't want you to go up in a ball of flames at 100mph.
 
focus frenzy said:
:pray:Mark Mark Mark, the only chance you have is if you fabricate a large ugly cooling shroud. without it the engine will over heat and seize up and likely burst into flames.

the old Henderson's and Indians and several other in-line 4's made back in the early days had at best 30hp, and even then they had problems with over heating the back cylinders. that is why they went the way of the hard tail, it don't work and is un-safe.

know how many people lived to tell their adventure of running 100mph on a motorcycle with no suspension? not very many.

please reconsider, we don't want you to go up in a ball of flames at 100mph.
Click to expand...

C'mon man, I'm guessing that at 70-100mph, the turbulent airflow around the engine should be enough to cool it... plus I'll run a large oil cooler.
Great-balls'o fire jokes aside, do you really think it will overheat if I gear it right? I want the lowest possible rpm that will keep it rolling in the 70-100mph zone.

I plan on making it as low as possible and reducing frontal area to cut down on wind resistance....no streamlining/fairings allowed.

What about richening up the rear cylinders a tad, I hear that cools them down. Any other cooling tricks/secrets I should know about?
 
The event will be well documented...you can bet on that. :dancing:

The Smokeout is quite a party, so if you can make it to the Rock, it will be a hoot. Its now going to be a week long.

I won the chopper show the first year I went, but got loaded and passed out before the awards ceremony, so I never knew I won. When I won a trophy with the Kamikaze the next year, they told me I had won the previous year and never picked up my award...:lol:

I try to stay a little more clear-headed now. If I win again on a "Stampede" bike, it will be a major coup, especially with a sideways shafty motor!

Of course the GSR will get a plug in the magazine...
 
Mark Harrop said:
C'mon man, I'm guessing that at 70-100mph, the turbulent airflow around the engine should be enough to cool it... plus I'll run a large oil cooler.
Great-balls'o fire jokes aside, do you really think it will overheat if I gear it right? I want the lowest possible rpm that will keep it rolling in the 70-100mph zone.

I plan on making it as low as possible and reducing frontal area to cut down on wind resistance....no streamlining/fairings allowed.

What about richening up the rear cylinders a tad, I hear that cools them down. Any other cooling tricks/secrets I should know about?
Click to expand...

I just don't know of any simple cheep way of keeping it cool without major machine work.
without oil jets pointing at the pistons the cooler wont make much differance, and more importantly, turned side ways, you will not be getting anything for air flow between the cylinders.

going very much higher with the gearing will add to the heat issue if you drop it off the cam and try to push it.

the GS1100G engine uses a cam and port profile pretty much just like all the other GS (heck SV1000 also) and comes on the cam strong at 6K rpm and stock will be running about 7K rpm at 100mph.
 
Why not fabricate some kind of crazy looking baffle with pipes or something that will force air onto the cylinders in the back? Some kind of ram air foil. If you do it just right, you could direct the hot air right towards the seat :-\\\ It could be a "series of tubes" and you could call it The Internets.

As far as torque pulling any vehicle to one side, it still has to be a weight balance issue if it's not pants crapping. In general, a motorcycle isn't a free-moving object :) so it's not the Coriolis effect!
 
If you want a little extra flow around the head you could do a combo carb heat shield/ram air panel between the carbs and head. A flat piece of polished aluminum or stainless with a couple of well placed bends would force some air over the head.
 
Use the KISS principle

Use the KISS principle

Keep it simple.

IMO, you should stay with the 1100G transverse set up and lengthen the frame to accomadate a step up system similar to what you are trying to achieve now.

Run it with the jack shaft at right angles to the output flange, then bring the drive back to the existing postion with a second drive flange bolted to the drive shaft. You will need extra support for the output bearing/shaft assy, and the same at the other end where it comes back to the drive shaft. It will mean far less work in the long run. If you design it right, you will be able to experiment indefinately with your top gear ratio until you're happy with it.

Cooling won't become an issue either, but I would fit a decent oil cooler.

Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck, with your project.
 
Well, I guess there is only one way to find out the answers to these perplexing questions...

I'll just build what I have in mind, and if it bursts into flames or siezes up at 100mph, I just hope someone gets it on video...

Anyone ever gotten a cylinder head temp reading on one of these motors?
 
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