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Valve guide oil seals

  • Thread starter Thread starter doctorgonzo
  • Start date Start date
D

doctorgonzo

Guest
I probably should have bumped my rebuild thread, but....

Got the head back from the machine shop and been working on getting the carbon out of the ports with brass wire brush on a dremel tool and a dentists pick. I'm afraid I may have to take it back and get them to resurface the valve seats as a couple are a little rough. ANYWAY, I cannot get the oil seals off the guides. Manual says needle nose pliers, yeah right. What's the trick?
 
Don't get too forceful trying to get the seals off or you may snap off a guide.

They can get kind of crusty but you might want to try some heat from a heat gun to soften up the seals. There is typically a metal shell holding the seal so you need to pry off the metal shell - maybe use a hooked tool to lift it off?

BTW: What did the machine shop do for you? Pitting in the seat can be removed with light valve lapping if it's not too bad.

Good luck.
 
Nessism said:
Don't get too forceful trying to get the seals off or you may snap off a guide.

They can get kind of crusty but you might want to try some heat from a heat gun to soften up the seals. There is typically a metal shell holding the seal so you need to pry off the metal shell - maybe use a hooked tool to lift it off?

BTW: What did the machine shop do for you? Pitting in the seat can be removed with light valve lapping if it's not too bad.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

I'll try hooking underneath them with one of my picks after applying some heat. They are toast, they have to come off, so I'll just keep at it, if I trash a guide, so be it, my decision on replacing the guides will be made for me then I guess.

The machine shop checked it for "true" which it wasn't so they milled it, I think they said 4/100th of a mm, and they superficially cleaned it, $60.00 plus tax. I think I can just lap them. It's where it was run with the valves poorly adjusted so they didn't fully close allowing carbon to build up on the seat. I have them mostly clean, but by the time I get them totally clean I made have roughed them up a bit. I may have to use coarse then fine lapping compound.
 
If the seats aren't pitted you should be fine.
Those oil seals are just rubber and a little spring in them to hold in the oil from the valve stem.
Burn those fvckers off as Ed said.
 
I'd try a bit of heat first (hot air gun rather than a burner) and then grab the seal an gently wiggle from side to side and try and twist. If it comes loose it will wiggle off. If it won't budge then try burning off - the rubber is pretty thin beneath the metal so you won't gain a tremendous amount but again try wiggling and twisting.

Take care as Nessism says not to snap the top off the guide (they are pretty thin around the clip area) but also watch that you don't score the bucket bores as well.
 
Try not to snapp a guide off. Whats left can be a real pain in the Ar** to get out of the head and involve a lot more machine work with extra cost.

If it won't come and you are changing the valve guides why not leave them in place and take the guide and seal out in one go?

Suzuki mad
 
Suzuki mad said:
Try not to snapp a guide off. Whats left can be a real pain in the Ar** to get out of the head and involve a lot more machine work with extra cost.

If it won't come and you are changing the valve guides why not leave them in place and take the guide and seal out in one go?

Suzuki mad
Click to expand...

Ed and others have convinced me not to change the guides unless I have to. I noticed my Clymers doesn't even show how to take the guides out in it's procedures, the service manual does of course.
 
I use a pair of long nosed pliers, one part inside the seal the other outside and gently pull. Not had a problem so far.

Suzuki mad
 
Suzuki mad said:
I use a pair of long nosed pliers, one part inside the seal the other outside and gently pull. Not had a problem so far.

Suzuki mad
Click to expand...

Thats how I got mine off, it just deforms them, but just pull then straight in line with the guide. You can also hook two right angle screwdrives undr the bottom edge and lever then off by pulling straight up, at an angle and it will not come off.
 
Ok, dentists pick did the trick, getting under them and pulling up, but I'm going to have to finish with a torch I think. They are so brittle they disintegrate when you try and take them out. Got them mostly off, but bit of rubber here and there still glued to the guide.
 
You can now give the guides a look see if they are visibly oval and just check the valve stem play. If they are bad then you could replace them yourself. I was lucky as mine was in good condition. apparently the valve sten seals should be made from Viton as some other substances like those used in some of the intake o-rings make the rubber brittle if used in a hot environment. Or this is as I understand it. Use viton and they will remain pliable!!?
 
Matchless said:
You can now give the guides a look see if they are visibly oval and just check the valve stem play. If they are bad then you could replace them yourself. I was lucky as mine was in good condition. apparently the valve sten seals should be made from Viton as some other substances like those used in some of the intake o-rings make the rubber brittle if used in a hot environment. Or this is as I understand it. Use viton and they will remain pliable!!?
Click to expand...

I have to assume they are the factory seals. I seriously doubt this top end has ever been rebuilt before. This engine was ABUSED, but the head was sound, only slightly warped, no stripped bolt holes or broken bolts stuck in it like my original (the reason I am swapping it in for my original head). So far on this head I have found a valve that was stuck open because a hose clamp had fallen into the engine and was stuck between a valve and the seat (yes, I am serious, and I bet it's the reason the bike it came off of got parked) and multiple valves so badly in need of adjustment the seat where it should have met the valve was gunked up with carbon.
 
A hose clamp? Hope someone has not figured out a way to adjust valves with a hose clamp!! The zip tie method already does not have everyones approval! Sometimes a part that looks bad can be fixed as good as new and another that looks good just has too many issues. I think after all your bad luck with the head this one sounds as if this one should be OK after a good bit of maintenance and clean up. :)
 
I made a valve stem seal puller out of a huge pair of needlenose pliers from Harbor Freight.

I Dremeled out some material inside near the tips, so they can partially close around the valve seal and hook under it.
 
bwringer said:
I made a valve stem seal puller out of a huge pair of needlenose pliers from Harbor Freight.

I Dremeled out some material inside near the tips, so they can partially close around the valve seal and hook under it.
Click to expand...

Good one, still working on them.
 
Finally, ONE oil seal off. Combination of needle nose vise grips (mole grips for you members of the empire) and benzomatic torch. Heat, pull and twist, heat, pull and twist, heat, pull and twist for about 10 minutes.
 
doctorgonzo said:
Finally, ONE oil seal off. Combination of needle nose vise grips (mole grips for you members of the empire) and benzomatic torch. Heat, pull and twist, heat, pull and twist, heat, pull and twist for about 10 minutes.
Click to expand...
I guess your lucky you only have eight. :p
 
Dont do what I did then! When fitting the new ones first slip on the spring base, it cannot go over the seal!!:eek: The new ones do come off a bit easier,, but can be damaged.
I hope there is a pictorial lurking somewhere, on your experiences and solutions!:)
 
Make sure to dip the valves in oil before putting through the seals.
 
chef1366 said:
I guess your lucky you only have eight. :p
Click to expand...

I learned the trick on the first one and the rest came off much easier. Heat definitely is the trick to break that old rubber loose from the guide.
 
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