Weird problem with charging

[Fjbj40]

OK, my 1000, with Honda regulator (8) wire, Ballistic battery, single point grounding, all hard wired connections. One red wire feeds + battery terminal and is fused, other feeds into fuse box. 3 yellows to stator, one green to SPG, other green to neg battery terminal. The final black wire goes to the rear brake switch grnd wire.

She has been running, charging fine, for 2 years. Went for a 2 hour city/fast road run last night. Shut it off to open garage door and no re-start. Pft, totally dead battery, showing 9 volts, dead for a lithium anyways.

I started doing checks this morning after charging battery to 14.2 volts. Hope neighbors are not to mad, she barks at 5000 pretty good!

See here
https://www.ballisticparts.com/batteryInstruct.php

Anyways, following quick checks, http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3970459/stator-papers-phase-a-pdf-may-13-2012-10-43-am-55k?da=y

She produces the voltages as outlined, both dc and ac checks.

at 5000 rpm she makes 14.4 volts, slightly higher, 14.7, with headlights and running lights off.
at idle (1000 rpm) 13 volts, at 2500 13.5 volts.

Going to run her again tomorrow to see if it repeats itself.

Any thoughts? I am wondering if it is the battery, it states 14.4 volts MAX. Resting voltage is 14 volts after the testing. An hour after the bench charging it was 13.4.

Daryl

 

[Guest]

14.7 is getting high. Do yourself a big favor and convert to a SH-775 or CompuFire 55402 series R/R. They switch on and off as needed and can't be fooled into overcharging if load changes. The best of the shunt R/R's are old technology junk and you are always risking electrical and stator damage. They are five wire systems and that's all you need.

 

[Fjbj40]

I always run with lights on, so the max is 14.4, right at the battery's limit.

It does have a SH-775, off a Goldwing, maybe it is an early version? Not sure what year it came off but it was stamped SH-775, I got it at a used parts place. It does not have the style of plugs that the new ones have, it had pigtails with connectors.

Maybe it is time to upgrade to the newer version....

More trouble shooting required first, I am not into throwing parts at something till it is fixed .

 

[Guest]

I suspect it wasn't designed for a five wire system. but Steve would be the one to answer those questions. It seems to be operating normally, but something made the battery go flat.

 

[tom203]

"It does have a SH-775, off a Goldwing, maybe it is an early version? Not sure what year it came off but it was stamped SH-775, I got it at a used parts place. It does not have the style of plugs that the new ones have, it had pigtails with connectors."

Wait till grimly hears this! How about a pic of this prototype SH-775 ?

 

[posplayr]

If you look at this chart you will see that teh SH-775 is speced to regulate from 14.0v to 15.0v with 14.5v being typical. I dont know how you can expect a typical charging system to regulate to 14.4V unless you just get lucky? Granted the more modern SERIES R/Rs seem to regulate fairly tightly, (I'm not sure what teh Compufire is), the running well above 14.4 is well within spec.

 

[Fjbj40]

Good point, I am thinking the Ballistic battery, max volts being 14.4, is either a bad design or they picked that number out of the air!

Anyways I will find out in a day or so after the next ride, just have to stay close to town, don't want to be stranded!

 

[posplayr]

Good point, I am thinking the Ballistic battery, max volts being 14.4, is either a bad design or they picked that number out of the air!

Anyways I will find out in a day or so after the next ride, just have to stay close to town, don't want to be stranded!

If it is designed for typical automotive or motorcycle use, then it probably works with a typical charging system. "Probably" is the operable word as only time and history of the product will tell. Requiring the charging system to not exceed 14.4V is generally unrealistic and many people using the battery probably exceed that. Alot of regulators are set to 14.25v and given a "reasonable tolerance", 14.4v might not be bad for a maximum but clearly the SH-775 can exceed that.

 

[Grimly]

Good point, I am thinking the Ballistic battery, max volts being 14.4, is either a bad design or they picked that number out of the air!

Related to the nominal cell voltage of whatever lithium chemistry they're using in that - unlikely to be LiPo, as underseat fires are not generally welcomed, so probably LiFePo.

<edit> Here ya go - 4 of those, in effect; whatever series/parallel arrangement to give 14.4V at the necessary cranking capacity.
http://www.cobox-ebikes.com/296/basic-understanding-of-lipo-li-ion-and-lifepo4.html

I'm intrigued by the G-W SH-775; who knows what Shindengden did before they brought it out in the long-term casing. It's perfectly possible they supplied Honda with a series design in a casing that suited the existing production. Otoh, it might have been an aftermarket fake-up, as we have seen before. Only way to be sure is an ammeter (clamp or otherwise) on the stator output wires and see what shows up.

 

[bwringer]

There's usually a goodly voltage drop at the brake light wire, and with these Honda R/Rs, that will lead to overcharging.

The Honda regulators are very reliable and inexpensive, but I usually prefer to use a relay to ensure the sense wire sees actual battery voltage (use the brake light wire to switch the relay). In my experience, this gives you a very steady 14.2V down to just a hint off idle.


The other thing that strikes me as odd is that you've got the red wires from the R/R going to two different places. I don't know how or whether they're separated inside the regulator, but I wonder if this could cause problems.


In any case, if you're going to install a high-dollar battery that's known to be extremely touchy about charging voltage, it would probably be a good idea to also switch to a series regulator -- the Polaris unit is around $75-$90.

 

[Fjbj40]

Yes, it is a LIFEPO4 battery.

I think I will look into the Polaris unit this winter, she seems to be charging fine right now though.

Thanks for the assistance gentlemen.

 

[tom203]

You can just run the sense wire thru a fuse direct to battery positive - left connected, no problem as the sense current is tiny so it would take a loooong time to noticeably drain battery. This prevents the brake light voltage drop from fooling the shunt r/r into overcharging battery.

get the SH-775 when you can-it reduces stator loading well.