Page last modified: 08/22/08

Brakes

Note: Email addresses and links listed in this Q&A section may no longer be valid!

 

DATE: September 6, 1999
QUESTION: Brake swap info needed - 1981 GS1100EX

I picked up my bike this spring and have been reading your site quite a bit. My question is regarding the brakes. The rear has 2 pistons in the caliper while both of the front have a single piston. I don't have the anti dive brakes. Some of the Q&A's mention dual piston calipers for the front on later models. Which bikes have these and can I mount them on my bike? 

I will be ordering the steel lines this winter and would really like to upgrade these a little. I know you didn't recommend this for some other riders with smaller bikes but if I have a problem I can always go back, so please tell me if it's possible. I can order the calipers through Suzuki, I assume.

RIDER: Quintin Sauer

REPLY:  Malcolm Evans
Dunno about that but a very common mod here in the UK is Nissin GSXR slingshot brakes. These will fit straight onto GS 1150 legs, other models can be made to fit with brackets and a spacer washer or two. This has transformed my GSX 1100 EZ from "I'm gonna stop eventually" into something that I only need two fingers to stop dead from 145+, using the stock disc.

Go hunt some up at your junkyard, they are double opposed piston Nissins, they are fitting them on the GSF Bandits now.

DATE: May 21, 1999
QUESTION: Changing brake calipers - 1979 GS750

I also have a new question. Can change brake calipers on my 1979 GS 750 to improve braking? For example double calipers from a later model GS. I am going to change the brake lines into steel braided ones.

RIDER: Edward Goossens

REPLY: Frank Perreault
I would change the brake lines to the steel braided and left the calipers alone.  The added unsprung weight of the bigger, heavier double calipers is likely to throw the balance of the bike's front end completely off.  It really isn't worth the trouble in my opinion.

DATE: April 23, 1999
QUESTION: Brakes - 1979 GS750

What's the ideal method for pressing back pistons when replacing disc pads? The Clymer manual is vague on the subject. Thank you.

RIDER: John Mason

REPLY: Frank Perreault
I use a big beefy metal 'C' clamp being careful not to damage any of the brake surfaces, especially the brake piston.  Take the cover off of the master cylinder, take some fluid out and put the 'C' clamp on the brake and turn the 'C' clamp handle to press the piston back in the brake assembly.
REPLY: Zack Schultz
A 'C' clamp works fine. To prevent the damage that Frank mentions, use the old pad as a spacer between the clamp and the new pad.
REPLY: John Mason
Thanks for the reply, Frank. It happens that I've got a beefy C clamp hanging from a nail right near where I park the bike in the garage.

DATE: August 24, 1998
QUESTION: Anybody have a 1983 GSX1100ES?  Bypassing the anti-dive brakes.

Hi Suzuki lovers!

I've just recently discovered this wonderful site and I must say I like it. I'm a bike fan from Sweden at the age of 23. I'm riding my second bike now, a 1983 GSX1100ES (old frame and double shocks). My first bike was an 1985 RD350LC, which is very fun to ride when the curves just keeps coming and you like to pop the front wheel into the air every now and then.

Anyway, I've noticed that the 1983 GSX1100ES isn't mentioned anywhere here and I wonder if it's just a very rare bike or has it only been sold in Sweden? I also want a description about what happens when you remove the anti-dive plunge unit and replace it with a solid sealing plate. I've heard that this will improve the action of the fork....!?!   Thankful for answers. Regards from a cold Sweden!

RIDER: Mattias Edberg

REPLY: Frank Perreault
There aren't alot of these bikes around but there are a couple listed in the 1100cc Registry.  You may want to contact someone listed there.

As for the brakes, I'll have to let someone else answer that one.
REPLY:  Bob Frisbie
I ordered a copy of Motorcycle Reports from Ian Smith Information (he advertises in the back of all the big motorcycle magazines). And, I got reprints of articles on the GS1100E I have.

Several of the articles claimed that the antidive units were making the brakes spongy and recommended disconnecting them. One said to replace the long banjo bolt (for two hosed) in the brake cylinder with the single banjo bolt in the antidive, then toss the short hose. That's what I did and replaced the hoses with steel braided. I didn't replace the antidive's with anything, just disconnected them.

So far so good. The brakes are really firm but the bike does dive a lot. I think I need to add a bit more fluid to the forks, maybe some more air.  Anyway, I've got a few hundred miles on it since I did this and haven't had any problems.
REPLY:  Guy
I have an '82 1100 Katana.

The anti-dive units and the whole front end assembly is a bit of a dinosaur, but it can work.

The biggest single front-end problem is the fork springs. The originals are soggy, spongy, squishy or whatever else you can translate it to.

Replace the springs with White Power, or my preference, Progressive. The preload adjustment must be got right with your weight and that of any pillion. I weigh 76Kg and used a 20,mm spacer made from 25 mm diameter nylon bushing for the Katana forks. Yours are different. Measure the new springs against the old to arrive at approximately +5mm with a spacer for the start point. You will only just be able to get the caps back in. Ride it around with the preload adjuster on softest setting for at least a week to get used to it, then ask the question "is it too hard, or too soft". Then shave the bushes to achieve the right "feel".

The only way to accurately measure the oil in the forks is to remove them, remove the spring, compress them fully, then measure the height from the oil surface to the top of the fork. Use this as the start point for all measurements. You will be amazed how careless people will have strange front suspension.

I use Shell Quaddro oil as it maintains its viscosity in a wide range of conditions. Thicker oil gives me sore shoulders on rough roads, where I want suppleness in the front end. This is also a reason NOT to use a fork brace - it makes it a bit too stiff.

Next, the anti-dives actually perform a damping function where they sit and the internal damping orifice is partly closed by the brake operated plunger moving the spool valve. So, by removing the anti-dive and blanking off the two holes, there will be a popping of seals and general wailing and rending of garments.

If you want to remove the anti-dives, it is necessary to drill the inner tube to allow the oil to pass. The size and placing of these holes is important. It is also possible to insert "cartridge emulator" valves at the bottom of the damper tubes and remove and blank off the anti-dives.

Gives a good result. Talk to Progressive or White Power.

For myself, I found that the new springs and close attention to fluid height and viscosity solved most of the gripes.

My mate and I are working on the solution to the brakes and sponge feel to the brakes and have found a small number of unaddressed problem areas. I will report these as soon as we have got to the bottom of the problem. The main one seems to be poor maintenance of the sliders on the caliper, with the grease going hard or washing away and with metal on metal in the slider, allowing the caliper to twist slightly while taking up under pressure. This appears to cause the pads to wear at a slight angle, meaning they are not flat on the disk and reduce area, giving spongy feel on takeup as well as reduced performance. The pair of machines we use are in different parts of the country, mine in the city and his in the country and we have slightly different complaints across the same set of symptoms, mine in the city showing more pronounced "angling" on the pads. This causes disk wear too, with higher point pressures.

DATE: June 11, 1998
QUESTION: Brake line replacement - 1979 GS425E

My daughter is working on my '79 425E which has about 25,000 miles on it. Always garaged except for the past 2-3 years when it was parked [uncovered] in all kinds of weather when my son had it in NY and MI. The front disc brake worked fine, but as it is almost 20 years old I advised replacing the brake hose, and recommended rebuilding the master cylinder and brake caliper. Is this parental overkill? And where could I buy rebuild kits for the master cylinder and caliper?

RIDER: Chuck Duarte

REPLY: Frank Perreault
I would change the brake hoses since those tend to crack when exposed to the elements, especially after 19 years.  As for rebuilding the master cylinder and calipers, I would check them out but I wouldn't bother rebuilding them unless they don't work, leak or just look questionable.  Make sure to replace all the brake fluid when you replace those hoses.

DATE: March 22, 1998
QUESTION: Where to find stainless steel brake lines - 1982 GS1100GL

I have noticed alot of mention in the Q&A section about installing stainless steel brake lines.  I have a 1982 GS1100GL that I love dearly and I would really love to make the brakes a little better. Where do I get these brake lines and do they come ready to install or do I have to make them up myself.  I don't really care I just want to know ahead of time as to what to expect.

Thanks for the help and keep up the good work with the site.  I currently own 3 GS model (1981 GS1000L, 1982 GS1100Gl, 1982 GS450TX) and I love being able to come here to find information.

RIDER: Rob Hatfield

REPLY: Frank Perreault
A good place for these, if they still carry them, is at MidWest Action Cycle.   Call them at 1-800-343-0608 or macycle@execpc.com.

DATE: March 22, 1998
QUESTION: Ticking brakes on a 1982 GS650E

I ride a GS650E, '82, about 18K miles, mostly commuting. Last Spring a low-speed accident led to repairs. No fork or chassis damage: cut a
tire, whacked off turn signal stalks and mirror, bent handlebar end, cracked windshield. Took it to a shop I have used in the past with good results, an honest and capable outfit in my experience. Brakes were low.

Anyway, on the front so I said why not replace the pads as long as ya gotta replace the tire. I usually ride with earplugs (if you don't, read the Motorcycle News research articles about it), and replaced the dinged helmet with a Shoei K9. Quiet. Too quiet. About a month after I was back on the road, I dropped the earplugs in the gravel, and shoved them in my pocket to wash later. Riding without foam in the ears, and with the faceplate open on the helmet in warm weather, I could hear a rapid loud tick that seemed to be "up front". Speed on tick varied with road speed, but NOT with engine speed. Tried with clutch disengaged, kept ticking. Killed the engine entirely on a hill, kept ticking. Touched the front brake lever, tick stopped. Rode a ways with the brake lever free, tick started again.

Took it back and described the noise. Next day, the "wrench" swore he had re-checked the brake assembly, "rode it around the lot", couldn't
hear a thing, nothing wrong. Rode another month, still ticking. Couldn't see anything myself, but what do I know? Got nervous, took it to another shop, this one a Suzuki dealer. Maybe it's a bearing giving out... so they replace the front wheel bearing assembly, proudly announce they found a couple of bad bearings, hey, it's old, we replaced 'em and everything is fixed. PS, they "rode it around the lot and couldn't hear anything". Well, I looked at the old bearings, and yes, they needed replacing. He was closing, I paid, saddled up, took off for home. By the end of a half mile I knew the tick was untouched (but the lights had gone off at the dealers, of course.) I needed the bearing change, OK - but still, the sound of metal on metal with every rev of the wheel is giving me the willies, wondering what's finally going to dissolve under me, at speed, in traffic, one of these days. Neither shop is in a hurry to tackle this again (honest if not courageous fellows...), and I have neither the tools nor the experience to tear into what professionals can't handle. Then again, the professionals "ride around the lot" with their fingers on the front brake lever, and can't connect this safety measure on their part with what I keep trying to tell them about touching the brake lever killing the noise. Duh...

Anyone got a line on this? I keep thinking it's gotta be in the brake assembly, but I can't see anything out of alignment or with loose parts sticking out where they shouldn't. No, I'm not going to ride with the brakes on, and no, I don't want to sell this bike. Help!

RIDER: John F. House

REPLY: John F. House
Recently two separate readers of the page sent mail suggesting the speedo cable, which I had dismissed because there was no flutter in the instrument display. Tried it. Bingo! Thanks to you and your readers!

DATE: March 8, 1998
QUESTION: Brake fluid leaks - 1981 GS450L

I bought an '81 GS450L recently and have a problem with the front brake. 1) There is something greasy (I'm quite certain it's brake fluid) on the right hand side (wheel side) of the rotor. 2) The front brake is soft. The handle comes all the way to the throttle grip when I apply enough pressure to stop the bike after I release the rear brake when coming to a stop. There is a little bit of fluid leaking from the master cylinder. It looks like it is leaking from where the plastic reservoir meets the master cylinder.

I would be very grateful to anyone who could give me information concerning what I should do to repair the problem. Thank you.

RIDER: Aaron J. Orr

REPLY: Frank Perreault
It sounds like your seals are gone on the piston in the brake caliper.   Also, it sounds like you have a bad O-ring or two in the master cylinder.  All this leakage is allowing air into the system making things appear spongy.  The system will need to drained and both assemblies torn apart and rebuilt.

DATE: November 10, 1997
QUESTION: Front end conversion

I very much enjoy my 82 GS1100 E. I have done a few things to it and it has always been reliable and fairly powerful, now to make it corner and stop. PM does make a complete brake replacement kit (drool) but this does nothing for the forks. Has anyone done the GSXR 750/1100 front end conversion? I am able to find lots of suspension parts for these, plus they come with good brakes. Maybe not just the GSXR series, but a much newer Suzuki sporting bike front end.

RIDER: Douglas J. Berry

REPLY: Bill Chandler
I know a guy in Las Vegas who has done this type of conversion. Drop him a line and see if he can help you. Contact: Scott, Email: AMSARACE@aol.com

DATE: November 4, 1997
QUESTION: Spongy brakes

Hi Frank, my name is Ralph Cuomo. I live in northern Maryland and own an 82 GS1100 E. Bought it brand new, has 32,000 on it. I thought I'd contact you directly for an expedient answer. I need to redo my front brakes. Very spongy. Have original brake lines. Have disregarded the anti-dive system. Some say replace the lines, other say rebuild master cylinder. Probably need to do both, but I thought I'd pick your brain first.

  1. Local guy says I have to replace the plunger in the cylinder ($45.00). I thought seals would be sufficient, what do you think? No leaks anywhere and I've bled the brakes. I never had the tell tale pulsating feel in the lever which is common due to disc warpage, so I don't think the disc is a problem. However give me your feedback on that.
  2. Know of any cafe or bullet type fairings that will fit without changing the headlight?
  3. I have had an oil leak thru the front of the head gasket since about 11,000. compression is slightly lower in 2 or 3 (can't remember). Performance is excellent so I haven't done anything with it. Think I should change the gasket, or live with it? My only concern has be warpage, however performance had not suffered. I do all my own work and do service at regular intervals, however I firmly believe, If ain't broken, don't fix it.

I have learned alot about this bike in 15 years. When I get a chance I will share my thoughts and experiences with the GS/site. I lived in Europe for five years and shipped this bike instead of furniture. I have to admit that there are some European spec parts on the bike but nothing major.

RIDER: Ralph Cuomo

REPLY: Frank Perreault

  1. Noting that you don't have any leaks, I think changing seals and plungers would be a waste of time and money. I would change the brake lines over to steel braided lines. When I changed mine, it made a dramatic difference in how solid the brakes felt. In fact, if you look through the GS Resources registry you'll notice that that is one of the first, and most popular changes, that everyone does. Spongy brakes is the reason for it.
  2. Not really. Can anyone else help here? Of course, the next question once you do find a manufacturer of a fairing, is whether it is still available or not.
  3. This I would take care of. I would first try retorquing the head without changing the head gasket. You will need a good quality torque wrench for this and make sure to follow the correct tightening sequence. If it still leaks, then change the head gasket and retorque.

    I've found in most cases, retorquing will take care of it. As for the leak not affecting performance, this is not true. If you are seeing a compression drop in cylinders 2 & 3, you're losing power. The 1100 is such a beast of an engine, that you probably didn't notice the gradual loss of power.

    So I'd get the head taken care of in order to get back the power and avoid any possible head warping problems. It shouldn't cost much whether you decide to do this yourself or let a shop do it. A good torque wrench would cost you about $50.

Feel free to forward your stories to the GS Resources Editor-In-Chief Peter Huppertz . Peter is located in the Netherlands, so you two might have something to talk about.
REPLY: ltate@intranet.on.ca
Saw your letter in the Q&A; change the brake lines, for sure they've had the biscuit after all this time. Best to go with steel-braided lines. Make sure you keep the fluid fresh; I kept forgetting and after finally doing it this year can't believe the difference. Ditto for watching the pads, again, I haven't looked for years, literally, and couldn't believe how oddly they'd worn, all four different. New pads and fluid and a good bleeding (I have steel lines) and it's like a whole new set of brakes.

DATE: October 21, 1996
QUESTION: Brake failure

I have a problem with the brakes on the above mentioned bike. The brakes are new as of 10-18-96. They have been bled, by a professional, and by myself. My problem is that they seem to be holding until I ride it, and then there are no brakes at all, on the rear only. What do I do. I am also loosing fluid on my back tire. Please help if you can. I would also like to find a book (manual) on this bike. If you know how I can obtain one, please let me know.

RIDER: Bryan

REPLY: Frank Perreault
Because of the leaking, it sounds like a piston seal in the caliper may be bad. As for the manual you might want to try to contact Clymer Publications, Repair Manuals ,P.O. Box 12901, Overland Park, KS 66282, Tel: (913) 967 1713. Hopefully, they'll have the manual for your bike.
 

 

 

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