Super Series R/R Market Survey

[Calvin Blackmore]

Are all of you guys from California and if so is it hot and dry there as well
I assume even in high air flow damp cool air takes away heat better than hot dry air.

I know California has regions with differing climes but I always see it as a sultry hot desert

[posplayr]

Are all of you guys from California and if so is it hot and dry there as well
I assume even in high air flow damp cool air takes away heat better than hot dry air.

I know California has regions with differing climes but I always see it as a sultry hot desert

I'm in SB which is right on the ocean and typical temperature is 70 degrees

http://www.weather.com/weather/today/Santa+Barbara+CA+93102?par=igoogle&site=www.google.com&promo=currrentconditions&cm_ven=igoogle&cm_cat=www.google.com&cm_pla=forecastpage&cm_ite=CityPage

However, as soon as you move more than a few miles back off the coast the heat climbs and it is easy to get to 90-100 degF and usually pretty dry over there. Will have to cjheck with a local expert on convective cooling on the impact of humidity.

[Macmatic]

Is anyone thinking about a group buy on these? $180 or so is a bit to shell out but it sounds like money well spent if it has:

Better regulation
Additional output
Lower engine heat
Longer stator life
Security (peace of mind on road trips)

I'd be in for one if Pos still has both thumbs up in a few more weeks.

/\/\ac

[Calvin Blackmore]

i thought there was no group buy planned?

I have never partaaken of a ventrue like that online before
but Im sure I saw it doen with something else successfully on here

I want one just based on the heat reduction
the bitchin cool factor is also there

[posplayr]

Is anyone thinking about a group buy on these? $180 or so is a bit to shell out but it sounds like money well spent if it has:

Better regulation
Additional output
Lower engine heat
Longer stator life
Security (peace of mind on road trips)

I'd be in for one if Pos still has both thumbs up in a few more weeks.

/\/\ac

I'm going to try and do some comparision testing this weekend to actually measure the voltage/current/power in the stator winding with both a FET SHUNT and Compu-Fire SERIES unit. It should be dramatic.

Better regulation - I showed Bill I could get over 14V idling by the time I was at 1500 RPM (actually less). So I figure that in that critical low idle area you can be a full volt higher than a Honda. Of course if the idle is too low then even the SERIES drops below 13V (1K RPM).

Additional output (rated at 40 amps and a typical GS is only 13-15 amps)

Lower engine heat (I saw 50 degrees but that includes my squirter).

Longer stator life (obviously should be indefinite)

Security (peace of mind on road trips) goes without saying

[salty_monk]

I did it successfully with some fork braces... worked out fine although it was a lot of work personally getting it all organised.

Dan

[posplayr]

I did it successfully with some fork braces... worked out fine although it was a lot of work personally getting it all organised.

Dan

The key would be to have the MOTOMAN just take all of the orders and arrange for all of the separate drop ships. Again he only offered a $15 off so maybe that was included.

I think that is how Eric used to do it when he was doing Ohlins deals; at least that I how I got mine. Direct order but great price.

[salty_monk]

Yes but the fork brace guy wasn't going to go for that unfortunately.... It worked ok in the finish.

[Nessism]

Jim,

Don't take this the wrong way but if there was 10 hp at stake, or even two hp I suspect, every super bike on planet would be built using one of these new fangled switching type R/R's...but they aren't. The FET type is what comes on most of the high end Japanese bikes like the CBR's, FJR's, R1's, Z1's, etc, so I think you are overstating the power consumption that takes place in the system (don't forget, the max power from the stator is listed as 260(?) watts for a reason).

My guess is the reason your stator is burning up is because you are using one of those Chinese built Electrosport/RM Stator stators with oversized windings. Using a high quality OE type rewind like a Rick's, or maybe that OE Kawasaki stator you mentioned before, will likely solve all your problems without having to re-engineer the entire charging and oiling system. Keep it simple is my motto.

All this said, I truly hope this experiment of yours works out. Sounds like fun (in a nerdy engineer sort of way (and yes, I'm an engineer too)).

[Mysuzyq]

Jim,

Don't take this the wrong way but if there was 10 hp at stake, or even two hp I suspect, every super bike on planet would be built using one of these new fangled switching type R/R's...but they aren't. The FET type is what comes on most of the high end Japanese bikes like the CBR's, FJR's, R1's, Z1's, etc, so I think you are overstating the power consumption that takes place in the system (don't forget, the max power from the stator is listed as 260(?) watts for a reason).
All this said, I truly hope this experiment of yours works out..

My thoughts exactly, as I posted earlier.....anyway, since a dyno pull is planned, it will be interesting to see if there is more than a couple hp gain, similar to simply running with the stator disconnected.

[posplayr]

Jim,

Don't take this the wrong way but if there was 10 hp at stake, or even two hp I suspect, every super bike on planet would be built using one of these new fangled switching type R/R's...but they aren't. The FET type is what comes on most of the high end Japanese bikes like the CBR's, FJR's, R1's, Z1's, etc, so I think you are overstating the power consumption that takes place in the system (don't forget, the max power from the stator is listed as 260(?) watts for a reason).

My guess is the reason your stator is burning up is because you are using one of those Chinese built Electrosport/RM Stator stators with oversized windings. Using a high quality OE type rewind like a Rick's, or maybe that OE Kawasaki stator you mentioned before, will likely solve all your problems without having to re-engineer the entire charging and oiling system. Keep it simple is my motto.

All this said, I truly hope this experiment of yours works out. Sounds like fun (in a nerdy engineer sort of way (and yes, I'm an engineer too)).

Ed,

Not sure what to say about me "overcomplicating or over engineering" but simply that is what I do (apparently) which of course to me simply means to rely on first principles to solve problems. There is a problem no? You are in fact offering solutions to the problem. So now we are simply talking about how to approach the problem. I have offered a theoretical basis for my approach which is to go to a series R/R design. The issue is the square law power capacity of a PM generator. What we don't know is when (due to saturated magnetics )that square law starts to roll off .

While it is true that the "extra power output" design will certainly make things worse, the Electrosport stator is of all appearances very high quality. Also I'm not the only one burning up stators.; see BassCliff's saga.

The oiling system is done and I'm not the first person to have redirected oil flow on a GS. KrisV was just showing me the same trick to keep his turbo cool. Of course you are confusing things some what here with the reference to the oiling system. The need for the sprayer to cool the stator is pretty much negated by the series regulator. The main reason for retaining the sprayer in addition to the series r/r device (besides the fact I already did it) was to releive some of the pressure from the hipo gears . As I have mentioned a few times I have not been able to reconcile the incremental benefit of cooling due to reduced oil pressure v.s. improved stator cooling.

I'm going to take some electrical measurements this weekend and to be able to estimate hp loss and heat dissappation in the stator as a function of RPM. This will be to compare the stator winding power for the Compu-fire v.s. the FHA0012A

To be clear , my bike is done with the sprayer and series R/R design (installed last weekend). I'm really only doing the tests to demonstrate the difference for GSR.

Jim

[Macmatic]

I'm going to take some electrical measurements this weekend and to be able to estimate hp loss and heat dissappation in the stator as a function of RPM. This will be to compare the stator winding power for the Compu-fire v.s. the FHA0012A

Jim

Are you still planning to do back to back dyno runs at some point? It would be interesting to see how closely the real world numbers compare to the paper numbers.

Power gains aside, from what I've read it seems like the drop in stator temp/engine temp is documented and factual? That alone seems like it would be worth the change in the not-too-long run.

/\/\ac

[posplayr]

Are you still planning to do back to back dyno runs at some point? It would be interesting to see how closely the real world numbers compare to the paper numbers.

Power gains aside, from what I've read it seems like the drop in stator temp/engine temp is documented and factual? That alone seems like it would be worth the change in the not-too-long run.

/\/\ac

I would only do the back to back dyno runs if Bruce can get a Dyno Deal at the 5th Annual GSR Western states Ralley.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?p=1220084&highlight=dyno#post1220084

There is no doubt alot of heat being generated in the stator with a SHUNT R/R so I'm sure there will be a perceptable hp recovery.

As a general statement, the SERIES R/R probably gets rid of 80%+ electrical/charging problems. The improved cooling, hp and fuel economy is due to the original problems of shunt control.

Thde original GSXR's put alternators on. This setup is more efficent than an alternator. The technology for solving this problem with an electrical device just has not existed before. At least not untill the last 3-5 years.

[posplayr]

I spent the afternoon and most of this evening doing these tests. Looks like the SERIES regulator reduces the power dissipation in the stator by about 3:1 as the current flow in the SERIES is about 27 amps compared to a maximum of 15 for the SERIES unit.

So other that the big Hp gain the Compu Fire does everything as promised. The reason there is not more heat lost in the FH012AA is the magnets saturate and can't create any more than 27 amps.

Stator Performance Summary





Here is a PDF with the gory details

http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com/FH012AA_Charging/SSR_vs_FH012AA.pdf

Good Luck.

[bwringer]

SCIENCE!

Thanks for checking all this, Pos. Now this all makes more sense.

So basically, it appears that using Compu-Fire R/R means about 10 less amps are wasted making heat in the stator. I like that. I like that a lot.