How Babbitt's Lost My Business

[bwringer]

I order a helluva lot of Suzuki parts for some odd reason, and I thought I'd give Babbitt's in Michigan a try for some V-Strom bits and pieces.

Parts prices seemed quite reasonable, and all seemed well until time to check out.

First, I had to create an account -- why sellers still insist on placing this barrier in front of their customers in the year 2011, I'll never know. But this is common, ordinary cluelessness, so I pressed on.

After 20 minutes wasted shopping for parts and creating a pointless account (is their server hamster-powered or something?), I'm finally ready to punch in my credit card numb... oh. Wait. Crap. It seems that Babbitt's will only ship to a billing address.

Bzzzt. Wrong answer. I'm outta there.

This is the year 2011. If you are selling stuff online, you have to allow your customers to ship goodies wherever the logistics work best for them.

Unless you only sell to the unemployed or third shift workers, shipping to a home address is completely pointless for many people.

For example, shipping anything bigger than a small book to my home address is a great way to ensure that it will sit on my porch getting wet and/or stolen or that it will sit in a UPS terminal somewhere getting lost or damaged.

I'm doubly ticked off because I carefully reviewed Babbitt's ordering policy page before I started shopping -- and they don't mention anything about billing addresses.

And while we're at it, I'll also mention that I didn't see shipping costs anywhere. I don't know if they appear after you punch in your credit card number or if shipping is on the "give-us-your-credit-card-info-and-we-charge-whatever-we-feel-like" system. Yeahhhh... right.

Dear Babbitts: please get a clue. You could probably sell a lot more parts if your idiotic policies didn't get in the way.

[Ranger]

I had an issue with places like this. I carry a card still attached to one of my banks in Washington and they would only ship it to that address, even when I called them. People do it on ebay as well, I won an item but was using the bank account linked to washington, I emailed and called the people who had the auction and they would not take my payment because my shipping address was different from my billing so they simply contacted ebay and complained about a non payment. WTF.

I think vendors forget about things called PO Boxes and that people move or buy gifts. ****ing idiots. And like you said, its worse when they don't put up a disclaimer so all the work is for nothing.

[bwringer]

At one time, maybe ten years ago, this sort of policy made at least a little bit of sense.

If someone stole your card, at least they couldn't buy a bunch of stuff online and get it shipped to their evil lair in Timbuktu.

But nowadays, it's just a stupid way to drive away business. Fraud and fraud detection have both come a long, long way, and address verification means very little either way.

It's still important to verify the billing address, of course -- that keeps out the laziest criminals.

But once you've done that as well as verified the CVV number, there's absolutely nothing to be gained by restricting the shipping address.

Pattern detection has gotten very, very good at catching and preventing fraud, and the second shipping address actually gives this system an excellent additional piece of data to work with. Motorcycle or car parts to my work address? No problem -- happens all the time.

[jeff.saunders]

Having the CVV entered online with the credit card number helps reduce the number of fraudulant transactions (we insist on it). But from a vendor perspective, the CVV does not ensure the card isn't stolen. If it is stolen, then it's the vendor who ends up being out of pocket. We've had a few transactions where the real card holders have issued chargebacks after the card has been used to buy something fraudulantly from our store. In each case we've been hit, the shipping address turns out to be either an vacant property, or a shipping/forwarding company. Many of these places are deliberately not keeping records of who picks up the box - when they do keep records, usually they forwarded the package to a third world country.

[bwringer]

It does suck that the vendor is the one left holding the bag when fraud detection fails and a fraudulent transaction goes through. That ain't right.

I wonder if the shipping address goes through the fraud detection system? It seems that these shipping drops would get detected and flagged very quickly that way. Dunno.

Also, it's a balance of risks -- sending stuff to a home address would be a lot riskier in many cases.

Even requiring a signature is a pretty pointless exercise. Anyone who happens to wander past could sign for the package. If it goes back to the UPS terminal, chances are excellent that the package will go missing.


A few years back, a co-worker ordered a spiffy new helmet online and the seller (a well-known gear vendor) insisted on shipping to his home billing address (not in the greatest neighborhood). Two helmets were stolen from his front porch before the seller finally agreed to ship to our office. (Not sure how he talked them into sending a third helmet, but it was an ordeal.)

The crazy part is that the second helmet was shipped signature-required (which was also completely pointless, since the home was empty all day) -- we don't know if the delivery driver gave it to some random passerby or forged a signature or what.

[Ranger]

It does suck that the vendor is the one left holding the bag when fraud detection fails and a fraudulent transaction goes through. That ain't right.

I wonder if the shipping address goes through the fraud detection system? It seems that these shipping drops would get detected and flagged very quickly that way. Dunno.

Also, it's a balance of risks -- sending stuff to a home address would be a lot riskier in many cases.

Even requiring a signature is a pretty pointless exercise. Anyone who happens to wander past could sign for the package. If it goes back to the UPS terminal, chances are excellent that the package will go missing.


A few years back, a co-worker ordered a spiffy new helmet online and the seller (a well-known gear vendor) insisted on shipping to his home billing address (not in the greatest neighborhood). Two helmets were stolen from his front porch before the seller finally agreed to ship to our office. (Not sure how he talked them into sending a third helmet, but it was an ordeal.)

The crazy part is that the second helmet was shipped signature-required (which was also completely pointless, since the home was empty all day) -- we don't know if the delivery driver gave it to some random passerby or forged a signature or what.

In my neighborhood its safe but UPS and Fedex both have papers that people new to the neighborhood fill out once they meet their neighbors. It gives allowances if a signature is required, so we trust a few people in our neighborhood and if its urgent they're able to sign for it. If not, they come back by at the end of their route around 6pm usually and drop it off when someone is home otherwise they leave the note for us to call them and either they will bring it by the hours we list or drop it off at the post office.

[Texas Don]

I also tried Babbitt's and failed to complete the order. In my case, I don't have an issue with shipping only to a home address since I'm rural and my employer won't allow personal shipments to his business. My issue is with their insane shipping charges. I did a direct comparison between partshark and babbitt's on my last order. With shipping, babbitt's came in at $123.00 while partshark was $98.54. The difference came down to two areas. Babbitt's charges $2.97 for an O-ring or a washer where partshark is anywhere from .68 to .99 for the same item. Shipping with babbitt's was $18.00+ while with partshark it was around $10.00. I notice that babbitt's offers many parts that don't even show on the fiche for partshark or bikebandit. I suppose they are doing a better job of keeping their fiche up to date. If I ever need anything that I can't get from one of my preferred sources, I suppose I'll bite the bullet and pay their shipping charge. I am totally at a loss as to why a vendor will charge full retail mark up on an item that can be found elsewhere with a couple of mouse clicks and why they continue to look at their shipping departments as a profit center. In babbitt's case, they not only shoot their own toes off, they reload and get a few more while they're at it.
Don

[hampshirehog]

And while we're at it, I'll also mention that I didn't see shipping costs anywhere. I don't know if they appear after you punch in your credit card number or if shipping is on the "give-us-your-credit-card-info-and-we-charge-whatever-we-feel-like" system. Yeahhhh... right.

That's why I never use CMSNL; p&p never seems to be less than 15 Euros, even for a penny washer - but you only find out once you've ordered.

[Paddy]

I have also wasted time on Babbitts going thru the process of putting everything into the shopping cart then the delivery address issue as I work for a USA company here in Australia and can have parts sent over thru work.
They lost my order, they need to catch up with the 21st century.

[SqDancerLynn1]

Maybe they will read this and do something. We can hope..

[chuckycheese]

Foul

Babbitt's shipping prices are foul. If you can't decipher the shipping cost until the very end of the ordering process, you can pretty much figure you're going to get screwed if you continue.

[bwringer]

Maybe they will read this and do something. We can hope..

Flat Out (Now Partshark.com) did just that -- the head of online sales, Chris, was a regular on this forum, paid attention to feedback, and they used that feedback to improve and grow.



In case anyone's wondering, I ended up ordering my parts from a dealer near my house, Westfield Suzuki just north of Indy.

One nice recent change is that they now offer free ground shipping if your parts order is more than $50. Their parts cost a little more than at Babbitt's, so I'm sure the total comes out about the same, but I definitely appreciated knowing the total cost right up front. I usually go pick up my parts in person so I can slobber on some new bikes, but I chose to have them ship this order to me.

At work.

[Octain]

Billing info(creating an account) before you know shipping cost.. Dont they all do this? I can think of one of em, cant remember who just charges a 10 dollar minimum.
Maybe they just want your info?


Last purchase I made(master cylinder kit) I tried my best to buy local but they're just to difficult to deal with and ended up buying online. Only saved about 10 bux on a 50 dollar item.
I've never had an item shipped to anyplace other than my home. I think it's kinda odd to do otherwise.

[hjfisk]

Babbitt's is a pain in the arse but their pricing is about 25% less than all my local dealers, and my parts get shipped to my billing address so it don't matter. Their site is very slow and seems to work at a snails pace. I will have to look into parts shark though never used them. I placed an order with Babbitts last sat and received it on Friday . was pretty happy with their shipping time.

[850GT_Rider]

I've never had an item shipped to anyplace other than my home. I think it's kinda odd to do otherwise.

Don't know how it is down by you, or if it's just how UPS is up here, but I never have anything shipped to my house if I can avoid it.

Biggest problem is UPS doesn't care anymore. They'll leave packages sitting on the front step, in the weather, and where anyone can come by and steal it. Sometimes I think all they do is slow down and heave the box from the truck and call it 'delivered'.

If a signature is required, their policy has changed. They'll make 2 attempts to deliver. If unsuccessful, they will only hold the package for local pickup for 3 days, then it's 'return to sender'.

While I understand the 'only deliver to billing address' policy is intended to stop fraud, it hasn't. Once I've established my identity, the vendor should ship to wherever I want. If not, I'll find a different vendor.