The Fear of Failure (First time restoration woes)

[bwringer]

Never heard that before (eating up the rings); could you elaborate a little, if it's not a thread hijack to ask... Tks.

K&N oiled cotton filters inevitably touch off forum holy wars (here we go...), but what he was referring to is that there is quite a bit of testing indicating that K&N air filters (whether pods or stock replacements) allow somewhat more dirt through than OEM oiled foam or paper filters. They do increase potential airflow, a little, in some applications, but this also makes no difference in the vast majority of applications. It's also been noted that many stock replacement K&N filters are poorly made and don't seal properly around the edges, or don't fit correctly in the airboxes.

The added dirt that makes it through K&Ns causes, among other things, more rapid ring wear.

The True Believers in the One True Holy Church of K&N, of course, vehemently deny all the above. Perhaps some will be along shortly to howl about this. They tend to get very, very offended.

Some Disciples of the OTHCoK&N also believe that K&N filters save money over disposable paper filters. The economics are marginal and dubious, given the cost of the cleaning and re-oiling materials, and the significant added time required for cleaning, hours of drying, and re-oiling.


All the above said: K&N pod air filters are usually regarded as among the least worst options available, if you are bound and determined to use pods and willing to push through the resulting jetting nightmare (especially with CV carbs). There are Emgo pods, for example, that are cheap, poor imitations and are not recommended under any circumstances.

There are oiled foam pods from Uni that should filter more adequately, but I think many people skip them out of aesthetic concerns; the K&Ns look cooler, while the Uni pods are red or green or black foam socks.

https://unifilter.com/online-catalog/clamp-on-air-filters/

I like how the last items on the page are foam socks meant to go over K&N pods and help them filter better... LOL.

[Nessism]

There is a reason K&N's flow lots of air. They don't scrub it particularly well, removing dirt. For most people, this won't matter. If you plan to keep your bike for decades, it can, though.

I'm with Brian regarding hack rebuilds. A crummy seat, loud hack exhaust, and diminished suspension = form over function. Just say NO.

[Suzukian]

I agree that the picture I posted was a hack job. I was more referring to a look I'm happy you guys pointed out the hacking. You can make a bike to your liking by studying what others have done, then do yours the right way. There are so many talented people on this forum, you should have no trouble with that. It would be interesting to se what style you are going for. A nice quarter fairing, flat bars, good shocks can spiffy up any bike. A good place to start. Get the handling done first.

I would say my Yoshima CB458cc Stage III (1975 CB400F) classifies as a true Cafe Racer. Yoshima Hand bent the pipes for me, forged pistons, flow benched the carbs through the cylinder head, which he ported, and hand bent exhaust system. I purchased the forged pistons he recommended. He bored out and turned them into smooth bores. The bike red lines at 14,5000 rpm's. The list would be too long to post, (like shot peened rods, Futura rear sets, D.I.D. aluminum Gold anodized rims. Koni Aluminum Body shocks, etc) This was back in 1977. The overhead cam chain cost me $300 bucks back then. The bike now only has 8K miles on it, but it is pickled and parked in my very dry barn.

Think about what you want out of the bike. I wanted a 1000cc bike eater that handled exceptionally well, and I could do it with that bike, which didn't weight much more than 300 lbs.
It cost a lot, now that I think about it, nut I had put 60K miles on before the rebuild. Everyone who sees that bike offers me money for it but it is not for sale. I even keep it covered but, so people don't notice it,

[gtem]

I'll join the choir: leave that poor bike alone. Brian is spot on: too many of these builds are motivated entirely by aesthetics, which lead the owners to turning a nice running stock bike into un-rideable, poorly running junk. I'd focus on getting the engine/fueling sorted out 100% before doing anything else.

I did five "resurrections" last year including two old GSes that had been sitting since the 80s. I keep a dry erase board and even a spreadsheet on my computer to plan out what needs done, and as Peter Egan once advised in his column, I try to do one small thing on the project bike per day, no matter how small. Order a part, clean something, install one small part, etc.

[storm 64]

I agree that the picture I posted was a hack job. I was more referring to a look I'm happy you guys pointed out the hacking. You can make a bike to your liking by studying what others have done, then do yours the right way. There are so many talented people on this forum, you should have no trouble with that. It would be interesting to se what style you are going for. A nice quarter fairing, flat bars, good shocks can spiffy up any bike. A good place to start. Get the handling done first.

I would say my Yoshima CB458cc Stage III (1975 CB400F) classifies as a true Cafe Racer. Yoshima Hand bent the pipes for me, forged pistons, flow benched the carbs through the cylinder head, which he ported, and hand bent exhaust system. I purchased the forged pistons he recommended. He bored out and turned them into smooth bores. The bike red lines at 14,5000 rpm's. The list would be too long to post, (like shot peened rods, Futura rear sets, D.I.D. aluminum Gold anodized rims. Koni Aluminum Body shocks, etc) This was back in 1977. The overhead cam chain cost me $300 bucks back then. The bike now only has 8K miles on it, but it is pickled and parked in my very dry barn.

Think about what you want out of the bike. I wanted a 1000cc bike eater that handled exceptionally well, and I could do it with that bike, which didn't weight much more than 300 lbs.
It cost a lot, now that I think about it, nut I had put 60K miles on before the rebuild. Everyone who sees that bike offers me money for it but it is not for sale. I even keep it covered but, so people don't notice it,

I'd like to see a picture of said motorcycle.... I promise I won't offer you any money for it!

[Suzukian]

I'm going to pull it out next Summer, it is literally buried under tars, hidden actually. It looks very much like Kaz Yoshima's.

150594_210260872440613_84683676_n.jpg?stp=cp0_dst-jpg_e15_fr_q65&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=e007fa&_nc_ohc=-DIrwPn5NroAX_0CWln&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AfBPC5jIHf0CFpF24FBvUBW1BIuk7HWomTS1kzW59vnJ1g&oe=63F666A3.jpg

[JMHJ]

Ok, my mind was going to the rich vs lean thing on setting up the pods, not filtered well vs not so much, lol.
The GS700E I rode for a little while had pods and ran quite well, so somebody did a good job. I think they were cheap ones though...
The Kawi I have now has a K&N with an excess oil drain tube coming out of the air box?? Maybe it was originally set up do to an oiled foam filter, like my old GS450L?? Which raises the point of how well did that filter? It was like a lawnmower - piece of foam oiled with 30W oil... Anyway...

You guys are making me nostalgic for the old GSs... Why did I buy a Kawasaki?? Lol. I guess I'll hafta settle for it.

[bwringer]

Oiled foam does an excellent job of filtering, actually. And of course in dirty environments you can clean and re-oil the foam instead of coughing up for a replacement; both are the reasons a lot of dirtbikes and lawn mowers use oiled foam.

Many GS models and other streetbikes use oiled foam as well. Since they're usually used on the street in clean air, you can go quite a long time without cleaning and re-oiling.

There are three main issues to watch for on vintage bikes with oiled foam air filters:

1) Eventually the foam will deteriorate and start to crumble, so watch for this. That said, foam filter elements can last 10 or 20 years.

2) It's extremely common for the sealing foam on the edges of the filter cages to deteriorate and get lost. Ponder your filter setup carefully to make sure air cannot bypass the filter. On GS shafties, for example, you can replace the foam on the top of the metal filter cage with self-adhesive weather stripping. Once the weather stripping is stuck firmly to the cage, you can apply a coat of grease so that it will slide into the airbox.

Speaking of GS shafties, sealing the airbox side covers with self-adhesive weather stripping foam is the first rite of induction into the High Order of the Shafted Ones. The stock rubber seals are all "perished" by now, so you have to seal this area another way. Weather stripping is cheapest and easiest.

3) Over-oiling is common and can restrict air flow and cause your bike to run rich. The foam doesn't need to be completely saturated and dripping; just apply a bit of engine oil, massage it in thoroughly, and squeeze out as much as you can using paper towels (squeeze, don't twist). Thick, sticky air filter oils sold for dirtbikes can be a problem as well; just use engine oil in a GS foam air filter.

[GSXR7ED]

Wow!

The year bike before mine...

Luckily, mine had the original air intake system.

You've got your hands full!

Veteran here...USAF...25 years Logistics Guy.

Definitely take pics of things you take apart.

I'm gonna have one helluva time putting mine back together...lol!

Look forward to what you got planned for your project.

[acr88_]

I appreciate all the feedback, gentlemen. I have been admiring the "Bike of the month" builds on the site here. I've been working on the bike for a few months now and along the way I decided against the cafe racer build (particularly because everyone seems to do that build and they aren't even a comfortable bike to ride in the end when converted and I want go camping on mine. Looking to maintain its' heritage with original aesthetics and some features and mods of my own wanting. At the moment, I'm restoring all the systems the best I can, as the previous owner neglected to service periodically (some systems look like they haven't been touch or opened since the factory). If I didn't care about the performance and health of the bike it would have been converted already, trust me, but I can't sleep at night knowing something is failing on the bike, so the systems were top list before looks. Wiring harness is about the only thing left and a carb synch. I will continue to update for those who are interested in seeing where she goes.

[letchworth rider]

I have the same bike in maroon. Came with pods. Could not get it to run right. Obtained the correct intake, runs really well.Guess you need to decide if you want a racer or a road worthy machine. It will take a lot to improve on the original.

[Suzukian]

I've been wanting to make a trike, either an 1000G or 850G. The 850G has so much torque and are priced nicely.

suzuki-gs1100-trike.jpg

[unfocused]

Dude, I started with this Feb 2023 and I am riding it. Well kinda. Carbs need tuning... Will be correcting this issue this weekend. I'm at that point where I'm trying to remember what I've forgotten...

Thankfully the wheels haven't rolled away and the steering works LOL

And I'm building a 2nd GS750 into a GS710-ish with modern suspension - profile pic - although it's in pieces atm...

Feb 2023 -1.jpg


.

[acr88_]

Dude, I started with this Feb 2023 and I am riding it. Well kinda. Carbs need tuning... Will be correcting this issue this weekend. I'm at that point where I'm trying to remember what I've forgotten...

Thankfully the wheels haven't rolled away and the steering works LOL

And I'm building a 2nd GS750 into a GS710-ish with modern suspension - profile pic - although it's in pieces atm...

Feb 2023 -1.jpg


.

That is majorly encouraging based on that picture haha! I've since gotten over the hill (engine up and running) but eventually I'll need to replace motor gaskets, and that's a little intimidating, but I have the Clymer manual

[unfocused]

That is majorly encouraging based on that picture haha! I've since gotten over the hill (engine up and running) but eventually I'll need to replace motor gaskets, and that's a little intimidating, but I have the Clymer manual

The motor gaskets aren't difficult. My biggest issue was with my chrome covers being pitted on the sealing surface so I needed a little help with some rtv. Fixed those issues.
Now the base gasket underneath the cylinders is probably the most difficult one to change. I just did a complete valve job and resealed from the base gasket up and it wasn't as difficult as I suspected it would be. However, I've been a mechanic all my life and still enjoy fixing stuff... yes the bike below was the frame above.

Somewhere on the interwebs, there is a factory service manual that can be downloaded. You might search for it.

June 2023.jpg