Motorcyclist in road rage shooting

[earlfor]

If everyone did carry, this kind of crap would happen a lot less often.

I doubt it. What we would probably get is nuts waving a gun every time some blew their horn at them.

[wacky941]

I doubt it. What we would probably get is nuts waving a gun every time some blew their horn at them.

I disagree, just like in the old west, gun fights did occur but were actually rare occurrences, thats reality and the rest is Hollywood hype.
Here in Texas, all the anti gun crowd constantly warned of shootouts in the streets and a return to the wild west if concealed carry was passed. Concealed carry passed and gun violence in the state declined. The shootouts in the streets that do happen are committed by people who are illegally in possession of a gun.
Statistically, you are wrong. http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control...ncealed-carry/

[GS1150Pilot]

While gunfights may have been somewhat less common in the Old West, assassination style shootings were plenty common. Rather than face each other in the street, it was more common for those with an ax to grind to find their antagonist drunk in a bar, or shacked up with a prostitute, or deep in a card game and shoot them when they couldn't defend themselves easily. The notion that more guns would make crime go down is stupid and has been debunked many times.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/

[rkroby]

More guns may not be the cause of less crime but we certainly know more guns don't cause more crime. There are many more guns in the US now and the rate of crimes with guns has declined. Not by 5 or 10 percent, but by nearly half in only 20 years.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/12/60-minutes-data-showing-guns-less-crime-alternative-fact/

[GS1150Pilot]

Ugh, a Breitbart link using the term alternative fact immediately after an article in a respected magazine.

To reiterate the point: More guns do not create less crime.

As to why gun crime is going down, here are five causes that have been observed, none of which has anything to do with increases in gun sales.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/03/weve-had-a-massive-decline-in-gun-violence-in-the-united-states-heres-why/?utm_term=.ac37e0a80fdf

A drastic reduction in the availability of assault rifles and bump stocks would be likely to have some effect on the most disastrous types of gun crime.

[themess]

..... Trevor is right, she should have rode away. .... Under a highly stressful situation with that adrenaline dump most people and police don’t even see their sights when shooting.

When I've come within inches of being hit by a car, I'm often shaking with adrenaline fear+rage. I'm not safe to drive until I calm down, let alone ride a motorcycle in heavy traffic. Faced with a similar situation, and not having the 4-wheel driver attack me, I would have probably pulled onto the shoulder until I calmed myself down.

+++++

I won't purposely ride a motorcycle in traffic that heavy. There are often no escape routes when (not if, when) someone makes a mistake that endangers my life.

[rkroby]

Yes, anyone can find a study to back his argument on a debate topic. I like facts. It doesn't matter if its reported on Fox News or CNN as long as its factual. All I'm saying is if more guns don't cause a reduction in crimes than on the contrary more guns don't mean more crime. There are many factors involved. I get my statistics from the FBI numbers. There are more guns in the U.S. now than 20 years ago but crime is down almost 50%.
We can certainly debate weather the FBI numbers are correct, heaven knows they have not been doing a stellar job lately.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/30/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

[bobgroger]

You can find facts to support ANY position today. The correct position in most of them is somewhere between the extremes. I don't own a gun. Not because I have anything against them, I used to do competitive shooting years ago. But because I know my personality and the likelihood it might be used instead of taking a more reasonable path. Self-imposed gun control. I don't feel less safe because of it. What I recommend as a solution is a dashcam on everything you drive. I feel much better knowing I have the actual facts recorded. I am planning to upgrade to a front and rear cam soon.

[GS1150Pilot]

Yes, anyone can find a study to back his argument on a debate topic. I like facts. It doesn't matter if its reported on Fox News or CNN as long as its factual. All I'm saying is if more guns don't cause a reduction in crimes than on the contrary more guns don't mean more crime. There are many factors involved. I get my statistics from the FBI numbers. There are more guns in the U.S. now than 20 years ago but crime is down almost 50%.
We can certainly debate weather the FBI numbers are correct, heaven knows they have not been doing a stellar job lately.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...me-in-the-u-s/

And you seem hellbent on proving that you don't know what the facts show-which is NOT that more guns = less crime or that more guns = less gun deaths.

[rkroby]

According to the Pew research article that I referenced it used FBI numbers. If you haven't read it, it says-"Using the FBI numbers, the violent crime rate fell 48% between 1993 and 2016" Looks like almost 50% to me. Someone needs to show me some reliable data that shows otherwise. And I never said that more guns mean less crime. I just said that more guns don't cause more crime. These FBI numbers, (not NRA numbers) show that.

[GS1150Pilot]

And, that point has ... no real point here, because there was a shooting.

[Big T]

It's interesting that this has turned into Dungeon material on guns, rather than the original road rage issue.

Maybe ask Frank to move it?

[roeme]

It's interesting that this has turned into Dungeon material on guns, rather than the original road rage issue.

Maybe ask Frank to move it?

Not that surprising, really. I mean...

I had to excercise a maximum of restraint to voice my opinion, or the swiss perspective on the matter, ever since news broke of the most recent mass shooting.

While it is fundamentally wrong to avoid discussion and confrontation with different points of view; the stuff that has been written in this thread and other gun-related threads on this forum demonstrates how mind-numbingly entrenched, uneducated (and unwilling to educate, nor learn) and unreflected many people are.

Hence, indulging this topic here would require inordinate amounts of energy and time on my part, and I rather invest that to fix stuff in my own country.

Anybody willing to form an educated opinion on the the topic; I'd recommend reading up on monopoly on violence, blood feuds and theory of state.
That **** was even part of the education here.

+1 for moving.

[themess]

... All I'm saying is if more guns don't cause a reduction in crimes than on the contrary more guns don't mean more crime....

How could civilians with guns reduce crime?
> SPECIFIC fear: A civilian with a gun threatens a potential criminal, who stops doing something bad because he fears getting shot.
> GENERAL fear: A potential criminal decides to not do something because a civilian with a gun might observe the crime and either detain the criminal or shoot him.
Both suppositions are rationa.

Can more guns lead to more crime, when over-all crime rates are dropping?
Yes.
> Most assaults and robberies are committed without guns. These crimes are committed far more often than crimes using guns. The over-all crime rate can drop, while more gun crimes are being committed.

The two sources cited on this topic don't pull out statistics on gun crime, or attempt to determine if increased availability of guns has affected crime rates.

We could have a situation in which general crime rates are decreasing and over-all gun crime rates are decreasing, but easier availability of guns is slowing the rate at which gun crimes are decreasing.

Yeah, it's complicated.

[mrbill5491]

Time to move it to the Vortex gentlemen.