1980 GS1000G - Smoke at start-up - should I buy?

[Redman]

Why does this only happen when the bike sits?

Gravity.
Remaining oil in top of head, sitting over the valve seals, leaks down thru the valve seal.
If sat for 10 days will be more than if sat for only one day. May be only a very little smoke after one day, but a bit more if sat 10 days, and a bit more if sat for 20 days.

Also keep in mind that a couple drops of oil can make a bunch of smoke.


About your original question about how concerned to be about a bit of smoking on start up:
SOme folks here might tell you to completely discount my appraisal, since they have known my bike to smoke a little bit after sitting overnight (as they have seen at rally, havent seen after sits for multiple days) and have seen my bike blow a bit of smoke on decell (another sign of valve seals) and on accell (sign of rings) -- year after year. And they have seen me add oil after a day of riding.

.

[gsrick]

It does look like a very well maintained bike, the engine looks spotless. If it is the valve seals I wouldn't worry about it and if you plan or riding it daily, you will not have a problem. I'd say if it will sit for a week or more it may smoke again.

As far as changing the seals with the head on. Theoretically it could be done by placing each cylinder(one at a time) at TDC and either pressurize it with air with a leakdown tester hose screwed in the spark plug hole as long as the rings and valves seal up well or fill the cylinder with oil and screw a spark plug back in to keep the oil in the combustion chamber. Either way should hold the valves in their seats, but the oil would be better in my opinion since the fluid would be hard to compress. It will make a bit of a mess when you turn over the engine to squirt out the excess fluid when your done and it will smoke quite a bit for a few minutes when you done.

The keepers can be removed by striking the top of the spring with a hammer and a deep well socked of similar size as the valve spring. I've done this many times with the head off and a balled up rag under the valves. They can be reinserted with the socket by placing the keeper on top of the retainer in position and pressing down with the socket. It does take quite a bit of effort, but it can be done.

Again I've done this with the head off. I should mention that if your not used to wrenching, it might not be something to try yourself.

Another thing to note is if these are the original valve seals they will be a bear to remove. We had a former member Eric made a video of an easy way to do it by torching the old seals and pulling them out with a pair of needle nose pliers.

Video of how to remove and install the keepers.

Here is a video of someone using a rope in the cylinder as was mentioned by Steve, I think.

[Admiral Beez]

Has he seen the bike yet? I would not discount a look based on the owner's phone call. Maybe he's set up the bike wrong, who knows. My GS650G smokes a little on start up and my mechanic said just leave it, it's not burning a noticable amount of oil, the plugs are clean. I paid CAD $900 (US$750) for the bike and will ride it until it breaks.

[MtnManCO]

I have not seen the bike yet, still debating if I should pursue this and do the 2-hour round trip to take a look at it.

I asked the owner how much the bike smokes and he responded "quite a bit but within a couple of minutes it stops. Does not smoke while riding." "Quite a bit" and "a couple of minutes" sounds pretty extreme, I think I should pass.

Thanks again for all your input!

[Nessism]

I agree with passing. Old bikes are best left for those that enjoy wrenching and have experience doing so.

[TxGSrider]

You'd think if they sat long enough that eventually the oil would seep past the rings and return to the crankcase... but that never seems to happen, or its some length of time Ive never encountered. lol

Ive had several fine running engines over the years that smoke a little on start up.

Also, if the bike has some old gas in the tank, or if allot of additive was added (Marvel or stabilizers) they can smoke a little.

[bwringer]

Yes, it's likely possible, but the trick would be to find a way to anchor a lever so you can push down on the valve spring(s) to remove and install the keepers.

.

I made a little lever tool with a base that you simply bolt to the head using one of the threaded holes for the camshaft caps. The tool has a short length of PVC pipe with a window cut in it. Loosely attach the tool, push down on the tool, and grab the keepers. It works from a variety of angles. I'll see if I can scare up a photo later...

To keep the valves from dropping, rotate the engine to TDC for that cylinder (so if the valve drops it can't go far) then lock the engine firmly in place somehow so it can't rotate. I made an air hold with a compression tester fitting and a small regulator and used about 50psi of air; pressurize the cylinder and the valve can't drop. Worked well and didn't even waste that much air.

I have a pair of cheapo needle nose pliers with the tips ground off a bit into sort of a curved hook shape so I can grab valve guide seals.

The rope trick also works fine, but you need a clean fresh soft length of rope, not something that's been rotting in the corner of your garage for 20 years.

[Nessism]

Isn't every bike on this forum in that category?

The reason I bought an old Suzuki is that I no longer enjoyed wrenching on my 1969 Triumph, but still prefer the older bikes. So instead I take my Suzuki to a trusted shop experienced with 1980s UJMs and let them do it. So far the bike's been good, my back is better and the budget is okay.

Yes, every GS. People buying 40 year old bikes better go in knowing their vehicle will likely need a good deal of maintenance on a regular basis. Most guys don't fix stuff until the bike breaks down but if that approach is taken with an old bike you are asking for trouble. And if you run to a mechanic for the work to be done, IF you can find a mechanic that is, you are likely going to be spending a fair bit of money unless you find a creampuff of a bike. Things like regular valve adjustments, flushing the brake system and changing the brake lines, fixing the charging system and eliminating the dreaded stator/headlamp loop, stuff like that, will cost you some cash. If someone just wants a bike to ride they would be better off with a newer bike.

[Gorminrider]

I think most carburetted engines smoke a bit on startup and every car blows steam for a minute or two in cold weather but in warm weather they do not for more than 30 seconds or so... this chart is for when you know there's SOMETHING not right...

The guy selling it has a theory-you would have to find out what convinces him of this...one symptom would be consuming oil...or smoking on sunny warm days which a good bike does not for long. High mileage would be another clue- IE: things in the engine should not be worn out at low mileage without abuse.
and, take a compression gauge. Read the directions..but mainly remember to open throttle wide.

[Brendan W]

I agree with passing. Old bikes are best left for those that enjoy wrenching and have experience doing so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA4pbt38y34

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I bought my '79 GS1000E new and I've been through the leaking valve guide seal thing two times. From my experience, the less you ride the bike, the sooner the stock seals will harden and the cold start smoking will increase over time. Eventually it will smoke all the time. My original seals lasted almost 20 years with about 106,000 miles. After a complete restoration in 1999, Vance and Hines replaced the seals with stock seals. Those seals lasted until last year with about 36,000 miles, the difference I believe was that I rode the bike much less and that can lead to the seals hardening.
Last year I replaced the stock seals with APE seals, about $90. The APE seals claim they "won't harden like OEM seals" because the are made of a superior rubber (Viton?). I decided to have a member here, Rapidray, do a complete valve job and I also had the cylinders re-honed for the new piston rings. Slipping the cylinders over the new rings was a little fun but it worked out. Be aware, on some models, disturbing the head/cylinder bolts will often cause the base gasket to leak. I forget the actual cost Ray charged but it was much less than APE wanted. If this sounds like an option, I can find the exact charge if you ask me. You can also contact Ray. He did the work quickly. Keep in mind there are other costs that make sense/or are necessary during head and/or cylinder removal. New head gasket, base gasket and O-rings throughout cost about $140-160. New rings about $130 (Wiseco). I spent about $1,000 for everything, including a new APE cam chain tensioner.
If you plan to keep the bike a long time then this may be an option. When you spread out the cost over many years, it can make good sense.

[wymple]

I agree with passing. Old bikes are best left for those that enjoy wrenching and have experience doing so.

But a GS you had to put some money and time in is worth it. I will not make that claim regarding Kaw, Honda, or even my 1st love, the Yamahas. They may or may not be, but the Suzuki will reward you pretty much always. My sons and my nephew ride newer , expensive stuff and they haven't gotten off scott free. 20-30 grand does not guarantee trouble free motorcycling. 3 grand in a GS Suzuki is a sweet ride, and as reliable as anything made since.

[Admiral Beez]

My sons and my nephew ride newer , expensive stuff and they haven't gotten off scott free. 20-30 grand does not guarantee trouble free motorcycling. 3 grand in a GS Suzuki is a sweet ride, and as reliable as anything made since.

Agreed. And I can’t buy a modern equivalent to my air cooled, shaft drive 650cc anyway. A Guzzi 750cc twin is as close as I can get, but with about half the horsepower.

[wymple]

My son Chris has a 750 Guzzi. He likes everything about it. He was an inline 4 middleweight kinda guy before. The HP difference is not relevant to the pleasure of the bike. It has plenty, just not a real hotrod. It's light years better than my GS850 in handling, and the lower weight and center of gravity are huge pluses.

[Admiral Beez]

My son Chris has a 750 Guzzi. He likes everything about it. He was an inline 4 middleweight kinda guy before. The HP difference is not relevant to the pleasure of the bike. It has plenty, just not a real hotrod. It's light years better than my GS850 in handling, and the lower weight and center of gravity are huge pluses.

Thanks for that. I have been looking at the MG V7 as a second bike.