"No good deed goes unpunished"

[glib]

Last year I sold one of my babies to a guy two hours from here. $2200 for a beautiful perfect looking and running 83 GS1100E. I was sick about it but I had my eye on an Aprilia so off it went. He loves it and a couple weeks ago asked me to do some work on a really nice 82 he bought for $1K. Go through the carbs, fork seals and adjust the valves. He's seems really nice so I agreed to do the work for $300--half what I think it's worth. I also spent 4.5 hrs repairing 5 of 6 side cover tabs--because I'm nice. BTW, when I dipped the carbs I did not remove the pilot jets--the ones under the black plugs. I removed the plugs and dipped them. I've had them break on me before so I left them in and let the dip do it's work. One of the air adjustment screws stripped and I barely got it out. So it wasn't a straightforward job--it was a PITA. Also, he wanted to use the K&L kits so we didn't have all the o-rings needed.

Did it all and he came to pick up the bike on Monday with the needed o-rings and I finished putting in the carbs. As most of you know, all this stuff takes time--lots of it.

When we started the bike it was really sluggish and took some tuning to get it going nicely. There was a little varnish left in the tank that I couldn't get out so we hoped that when mixed with four gallons of premium it would be ok. For a few minutes I thought I might have to tear it down again but before he loaded the bike it was purring like a kitten. Kerker four into one sounded sweet. Started it again in the back of his truck. Ran fine. He gave me another $60 for the dip and fork oil and I gave him a perfect pair of engine guards for which he is to send what he thinks is fair--I seem to be learning disabled.

That evening he called to say that the bike wouldn't start and today he said the local shop told him the pilot jets were plugged and I think he want's me to pay them the $300. (Not gonna happen).

Question. If the pilot jets were plugged, would it run perfectly at my place and not at his? While we typically remove them before dipping we still expect the dip to clean them right? I've done four other sets now--including the ones on the bike he bought and loves--and they are all running beautifully today.

I wish I didn't stress over stuff like this but I do and it's irritating.

Also wonder what a shop would charge to do the carbs, fork seals and valve adjustment--bike dropped off intact.

[Nessism]

When you say the bike ran perfectly at your place does that include taking it on the road and riding up through the gears and into the higher rpm range? If so, the pilots were not plugged at that point. Maybe crud in the tank worked loose and now the pilots are plugged again?

[Steve]

It has been said many times here, "any shortcut taken is merely another opportunity to do it over".

I agree with Nessism, if the bike was RUN for a bit, anything left over in the pilot circuit is already gone.

How much would a shop charge to do carbs, fork seals and valve adjustment?
I have no idea what a flat-rate manual says about that, but simply taking the carbs off the bike and putting them back on is easily a half hour. If they strip the carbs down and replace the jets (typical "rebuild kit" overhaul), that will be at least an hour. If they ungang the carbs to change the o-rings on the "choke" plunger caps, add another hour. We're looking at 2.5-3 hours for the carbs.

With all the proper tools and parts available, fork seals can probably be done in an hour. I am getting ready to do seals on a 550 today, I can keep track an let you know.

Valve adjustment, probably another hour.

Total: about 5 hours. What's the local shop rate?

.

[Buffalo Bill]

I found that dipping ain't enough for jets.
They need to be scrubbed out with a tiny wire, guitar string works very well. Then I examine them with a lupe magnifier.
Would have to do that even if left in the carbs.
Overall sounds like the bike was bound to have carb issues real soon.
"When there is doubt, there is no doubt." [trouble ahead]

[Tom R]

I found that dipping ain't enough for jets.
They need to be scrubbed out with a tiny wire, guitar string works very well. Then I examine them with a lupe magnifier.
Would have to do that even if left in the carbs.
Overall sounds like the bike was bound to have carb issues real soon.
"When there is doubt, there is no doubt." [trouble ahead]

You take it a step further than me with the magnifier.... but agreed, dipping alone doesn’t always get the pilots clean. I’ve soaked them in Berryman’s over night to find them still clogged the next day.

[glib]

It has been said many times here, "any shortcut taken is merely another opportunity to do it over".

I agree with Nessism, if the bike was RUN for a bit, anything left over in the pilot circuit is already gone.

.

I humbly agree on the shortcut quote and I would have pulled the carbs out again if the bike had not run so well.

I rode the bike down the street. The tires are 15 years old so I wasn’t going to light it up or anything. (I didn’t add that I synced the carbs on a four-gauge vacuum tool as well). Also ran up the rpms several times WOT and she responded strong.

There is a fuel filter in the line so I’m stumped as to how the jets could plug up again but they were clear when he left. The guy called that night and said it wouldn’t start. Even when it was running rough I started for me.

Steve, I think you work about 40% faster than me.

[Nessism]

Poor starting is likely linked to the choke passages being plugged. Did you verify the choke passage through the float bowl was open and that the brass (choke) fuel pickup tube was clear too?

[earlfor]

It has been said many times here, "any shortcut taken is merely another opportunity to do it over".

I agree with Nessism, if the bike was RUN for a bit, anything left over in the pilot circuit is already gone.

How much would a shop charge to do carbs, fork seals and valve adjustment?
I have no idea what a flat-rate manual says about that, but simply taking the carbs off the bike and putting them back on is easily a half hour. If they strip the carbs down and replace the jets (typical "rebuild kit" overhaul), that will be at least an hour. If they ungang the carbs to change the o-rings on the "choke" plunger caps, add another hour. We're looking at 2.5-3 hours for the carbs.

With all the proper tools and parts available, fork seals can probably be done in an hour. I am getting ready to do seals on a 550 today, I can keep track an let you know.

Valve adjustment, probably another hour.

Total: about 5 hours. What's the local shop rate?

.

It's $125.00 hr here, plus parts and fluids and I doubt a shop would only allocate 5 hrs for that.

[glib]

Poor starting is likely linked to the choke passages being plugged. Did you verify the choke passage through the float bowl was open and that the brass (choke) fuel pickup tube was clear too?

I did not run any wires through them. The choke was clearly working and the bike started fine before he left.

[Steve]

Steve, I think you work about 40% faster than me.

No, I'm not fast. I'm only about half-fast. Please say that carefully.

And, ... the times mentioned are what I think it might take a shop, with all their specialized tools and "stuff", not the time that I might take to do the job. I do have a fair amount of tools, but they are all over the place (I really need to take a day or so to get everything put back where it belongs), and some day, I'll look into getting a lift to make it a bit easier to work on a bike.

By the way, the fork seal replacement on the 550L was about two hours. That included some education and general chit chat with the owner, as well as some general cleaning of parts. Surprisingly, no polishing happened.

.

[greg78gs750]

lol steve you polish carb internals, not sure if that makes you half-fast or not.....

[glib]

No, I'm not fast. I'm only about half-fast. Please say that carefully.

.

Thank you for that. I didn't know until now that there was an accurate term for my own speed.

[Steve]

lol steve you polish carb internals, ...

Even though you can't see them, they DO work better.

Which ones would you rather have in YOUR carbs?















.

[ddaniels]

After soaking in Berryman's overnight, it's a very good idea to blast some carb cleaner from a can through the passages, if you can, followed up with compressed air. If, when blowing compressed air into a hole, nothing comes out somewhere else, it's blocked. That's my rule of thumb anyway.

[greg78gs750]

no question, steve, i have carb internal bling envy....just the idea of those shiny little diamonds slurping petrol makes my bike faster.....