Help me to sort-out my search for a new(to me!) GS450/500F,etc..

[grcamna2]

I sold my 82' GS450T a few months ago and can't Stand NOT owning a wonderful & reliable GS twin.
I had my 450T set-up with a custom rack and Krauser hard bags plus a Vetter Quicksilver fairing.I like how the early eighties and earlier bikes have a 'flat platform' style tank/seat area:I like being able to slide back on the seat plus strap luggage to the back of it,sometimes overflowing the rear rack which is only a 12x12" platform.I had no problem using the BMW airhead Krauser hard bags and had Plenty of room above the stock exhausts.I'm presently searching around for a 1983' GS450E,black if possible.The other idea I was tossing around was either trying to purchase & set-up a GS500F in a similar way with the same(I removed it from the GS450T before selling it) rear rack and hardbags only the seat tends to rise-up behind all the later bikes where you end up being in a limited seating position without being able to slide back.. That's one option.
The other one I had a question about is:the difference of power between the GS450E and GS500F.. 39cc;is that a big difference in power where I would really notice it between the 450 & 500 twins ?? I think the GS450 has plenty for me actually and it's a middleweight bike which I like.That 83' GS450E is what I want mostly,but tough to find.

Edit:I imagine I could consider installing a top-end/parts from a GS500 onto the GS450 engine if I wanted more power,has that been successfully done ?

[Buffalo Bill]

Try to hold out for the bike you like, but for alternatives look at the specs and photos of the other Japanese bikes of the same period and displacement.

[grcamna2]

Try to hold out for the bike you like, but for alternatives look at the specs and photos of the other Japanese bikes of the same period and displacement.

Hi Bill,I've looked around a bit at other vintage twin cylinder bikes,have owned a few different ones over the years;the thing is,they're not as solidly built and reliable as the Suzuki GS,imo. Bill H.

[Buffalo Bill]

I must admit, I'm quite impressed by the specs of the GS450E.

[Gorminrider]

I agree with Buffalo Bill. Be Patient and get what you want. I've got the 81 gsx400 twins T and E and they are bikes I won't sell. My Ninja 500 is more complicated, has fairings, water cooling, an annoying sidestand, etc etc. sure, it's a pretty good bike, faster by 15-20hp or so but day by day the 400s haven't the downsides, are more adjustable per riding posture and are quick enough.

As to 450->500 upgrade, if I had a GS500 to tear down, I'd just fix IT up. But swapping jugs? yes, it's been done. Member John Park (hangs out in twins section) knows quite a bit about it.Member Mekanix too but I don't know where he's at these days. There ARE threads in the Twins section...one of which
My GS450 -> GS500 Cylinder and Piston Swap

[grcamna2]

I agree with Buffalo Bill. Be Patient and get what you want. I've got the 81 gsx400 twins T and E and they are bikes I won't sell. My Ninja 500 is more complicated, has fairings, water cooling, an annoying sidestand, etc etc. sure, it's a pretty good bike, faster by 15-20hp or so but day by day the 400s haven't the downsides, are more adjustable per riding posture and are quick enough.

As to 450->500 upgrade, if I had a GS500 to tear down, I'd just fix IT up. But swapping jugs? yes, it's been done. Member John Park (hangs out in twins section) knows quite a bit about it.Member Mekanix too but I don't know where he's at these days. There ARE threads in the Twins section...one of which
My GS450 -> GS500 Cylinder and Piston Swap

Thanks for that Gorminrider.How do those 8-valve TSCC GSX400's as far as power compared to a GS450 ?

[grcamna2]

I agree with Buffalo Bill. Be Patient and get what you want. I've got the 81 gsx400 twins T and E and they are bikes I won't sell. My Ninja 500 is more complicated, has fairings, water cooling, an annoying sidestand, etc etc. sure, it's a pretty good bike, faster by 15-20hp or so but day by day the 400s haven't the downsides, are more adjustable per riding posture and are quick enough.

As to 450->500 upgrade, if I had a GS500 to tear down, I'd just fix IT up. But swapping jugs? yes, it's been done. Member John Park (hangs out in twins section) knows quite a bit about it.Member Mekanix too but I don't know where he's at these days. There ARE threads in the Twins section...one of which
My GS450 -> GS500 Cylinder and Piston Swap

I looked at the swap(450-500)and it's not real fast and easy,although it can be done.When I had my 450T,it had enough power and should be fine with the power it has.The trick will be finding a Good,used one.I like finding ones that have sat inside for years.
I could conceivably swap the cylinders(or bore the 450 cyl. block to accept 500 liners??)into the 450 engine(the 500cc bore cylinders would be a nice upgrade) and keep the cyl. head and cam chain tensioner stock? I wonder if it's possible to get advice from Rich Graver if he's still alive? I heard somewhere that he races the GS450's.

[Steve]

I don't know much about them other than the fact that they exist, and yes, I know it's not technically a GS, but what about a GR650? I think it also went by the name "Tempter"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GR650

Apparently only available in the US in '83 and '84, but went through '89 in other parts of the world.



.

[grcamna2]

I don't know much about them other than the fact that they exist, and yes, I know it's not technically a GS, but what about a GR650? I think it also went by the name "Tempter"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GR650

Apparently only available in the US in '83 and '84, but went through '89 in other parts of the world.



.

Hi Steve,
I've never ridden a GR650,I really like how the bike looks, very comfortable looking w/ monoshock and would be an excellent touring mount,but I imagine it's powerband is all midrange:does it have a top-end kick similar to the 450? I have really gotten addicted to the powerband of the GS450 as it's still got plenty of(remember I Even towed a 4x8' trailer using 3 & 4th gears @ about 5500-6000rpm keeping it at 55mph and it was doable:not what I would do again) midrange PLUS after 7000rpm that little engine really turns-on :that 2-steps of power in the 450,where it's just a basic bike's power,very progressive until it's past 6500+.. like 'the best of both worlds' in a way. I would like to get a powerband like the GS450 has in a GR650 engine;but I would guess that'll be a GS650GL,only it's a lot heavier

[Buffalo Bill]

If you like that top end rush, hold out the GS450E or S. One will show up eventually, and you don't want it to show up after you've settled for plan B.
Have you posted a bike wanted ad in Facebook, CL or Ebay?

[grcamna2]

If you like that top end rush, hold out the GS450E or S. One will show up eventually, and you don't want it to show up after you've settled for plan B.
Have you posted a bike wanted ad in Facebook, CL or Ebay?

I'm not on Facebook(my account got hacked too many times)but I will see if a wanted-add(can I do a 'west of the Mississippi' search?)for an 83' GS450E is an option.

[Steve]

I have never even seen a GR650 in-person, let alone ridden one, so I have no idea about the power delivery.

What is it about that two-step "kick" that you like? Is it the fact that there is a "kick" or is it simply the amount of power that is there?

I would imagine that the larger 650 would have a bunch more low- and mid-range power than a 450 to start with. When the RPM gets to the level where you expect a "kick", it just might be already making the power that would be there after the kick, so the transition is smooth.
Again, I have never ridden one, I'm only guessing.

My 850s have a similar "kick" around 6k, so I know what you are talking about. It has been a long time since I have ridden a 450 to see how dramatic the "kick" is, so I can compare it to the 850. On the 850, it's more like the secondaries opening up on a 4-barrel carb. Noticable, but not scary.

.

[Gorminrider]

Jedz had a "Tempter" I think... I see them online occasionally but while they get good reviews from the old magazines, there are reasons I haven't bit, mainly because i have too many bikes already but also....They seem to be big on high-torque at low rpm and went to special lengths to get this. I don't need that and don't generally like "specialties" overall though I really like my Suzuki twins' GEAR driven balancer! as better than chain-driven... but, PLUS, being rare with a special engine, parts are rarer. I don't have much trouble with any of my 400 twins and it's likewise for the 450. They're just a bit too esoteric.

PS judging from my own '81 400T and my '81 400E there is no difference in "top-end rush". The rear wheels differ (17", 18") but the sprocket ratios differ too, such that the "rush" is identical. You, in the States can compare for the 450s you got but I'd be suprised if any one is quicker. At least, not beyond what a few teeth in the rear sprocket can do for you.

[grcamna2]

I have never even seen a GR650 in-person, let alone ridden one, so I have no idea about the power delivery.

What is it about that two-step "kick" that you like? Is it the fact that there is a "kick" or is it simply the amount of power that is there?

I would imagine that the larger 650 would have a bunch more low- and mid-range power than a 450 to start with. When the RPM gets to the level where you expect a "kick", it just might be already making the power that would be there after the kick, so the transition is smooth.
Again, I have never ridden one, I'm only guessing.

My 850s have a similar "kick" around 6k, so I know what you are talking about. It has been a long time since I have ridden a 450 to see how dramatic the "kick" is, so I can compare it to the 850. On the 850, it's more like the secondaries opening up on a 4-barrel carb. Noticable, but not scary.

.

Yes, Like the secondaries on Old School GM automobiles with Rochester Quadrajet carburetors:the OEM 4-barrel carbs from the factory.They had a 'secondary lockout' you could switch to so the fuel mileage would be excellent just running on the tiny Primary butterflies.. but no thrill with them. Those Secondaries butterflies were at least double the size of the small initial Primaries which were great for low speed,around town use.The GS450 has that power delivery when you hit 7000 rpm+,when you get All 4 throttles wide open ! The slides lift-up best after 7000 and it hauls ass.I am also thinking of someday when I find the 83' 450E,try installing a set of later GS500F carbs and seeing if they would give great performance.