A Buddy Laid One Down Today

[ddaum]

While in class today another student was telling me about how he purchased a band new bike and was going to pick it up from the dealer after class. I had a few classes with him before and we were acquaintances, but not good friends. We got to talking and agreed to possibly go for a ride together later on after he picked up the bike. I went for a ride alone after class and got a call from him once I got home. He bought a brand new, zero miles, Yamaha V-star 650 and I went over to his place to check it out. It was very nice. I asked if he still wanted to go for a ride and he said yes, so off we went. We went south into the state park where the road has some hills and twists, very low traffic, great scenery, and the speed limit is only 25-30 mph. We were staggered and I was leading by more than a few lengths. I was watching him in my mirror on the way to the park and I thought his riding seemed a bit inexperienced. As I went around a bend I had him in my mirror, then I looked ahead for the turn and lost him behind a rock outcropping. When I came out of the turn I looked to my mirror and didn't see him behind me. I slowed for a second and when I didn't see him coming around the turn I got worried. I immediately hit the brakes, turned around, and punched it back around the turn. The adrenaline hit me hard when I saw the bike down in the ditch. He was up on his feet with his helmet off and his face was a bit bloody, but no major injury. I hurried off my bike to help him out and gave him a towel that I had in my trunk. Basically his inexperience and unfamiliarity with his new bike took him to the outside of the turn, onto the shoulder, and the rest is history.
There was some luck involved though. The bike went down in about a two and a half foot ditch which was full of dry leaves and soft earth. We pulled the bike out to find that the only damage was a bent clutch handle, and a few scrapes on the tank and seat. The cases and pegs were fine, even the turn signals were unscathed, but most importantly, he was only scraped and bruised.
Just then, some guy comes by in an old minivan and asked if we were okay. We said yes, then he gave us some of his ****ty wisdom:
"You know, there's only two kinds of people in this world; those who have laid one down, and those who have only yet to do so. You'll be alright." Then he drove off.
The bike started right up and we drove slowly back to the park's lodge so he could clean up. Like we hadn't experienced enough for the day, on the way home we were stopped abruptly by about 7-10 deer crossing the road while we were at about 55mph. We made it back safely though.
One very screwed up thing about the crash was the fact that we were both wearing leather, gloves, and we were both wearing HJC helmets. The full-face kind that flip up in the front. When he hit the ground the front of his helmet popped open exposing his face which is how he got cut up. Now I know that these helmets are DOT approved, but not Snell approved because of the "possibility" of the front flipping open during an accident. I like the convenience of the flip-up front, but after today I am seriously thinking of going with a regular Snell and DOT approved full-face helmet.

I felt terrible because it was my idea to ride into and through the state park and I was leading. Not to mention that this nice looking bike was a whole two hours old before it went into the ditch. i keep kicking myself in the ass for not recommending that he get familiar with the bike in a parking lot before riding hills and twists, even if we weren't going fast. I just didn't think about it because I assumed he had more experience than he showed today.

Anyway, we're both okay and the scratches can be buffed out. That's really all that matters. We agreed to go on a ride less eventful in the future, which I will, but I'm going to make sure he's comfortable on the bike first.
What a day...

[gliscameria]

Ewww...

Bad times man!

I just got a CL-SP helmet, it's got a lock for the visor, I didn't really think anything of it until this post though! I'll be sure to flip that switch from now on!

I very well should have laid down my new bandit this weekend, I went to make a left and gave it just the wrong amount of throttle, so it threw the back end out and then gripped again, throwing the back end all over the place, kept it up, though I blew some leather off my boots and jacked my hips up. Figures it would be when I wasn't wearing armor because I was on my way to the store to get a new summer jacket!

[argonsagas]

You should not feel bad for not knowing how well someone can ride, although it might have been a good idea to ask before going on a first ride.

Many people, when faced with that question, may not intentionally lie, but will overstate their abilities. Inexperience does not lend itself to accuracy...they just don't know.


That said, I don't know how many thousands of miles I have put behind me, but I have to admit to still having a poor time of it on occasion.

This was especially true after first getting my 1100G. After about 10 years away from riding, I put in time on the Honda 450, before buying the G, but while I lked it, I did not feel "at home" on it, and I was nervous with it.

My falls on that bike happened at stop signs, so there was no damage, but lots of embarrassment. From the first I learned that just a little bit of sand or fine gravel at an intersection can be a BAD thing. I do not have long legs, so holding up one of these bikes once they lean past about 15 to 20 degrees, is not an option. They are going DOWN.

The second was even more embarrassing, as I had just put new seat on it, rolled it out and away....then discovered at the stop sign that the seat was higher than the old one, and I could not put my foot firmly on the ground...just a bit of sand on the road was more than I could handle with only toes touching the ground.

Oh, well....back to the garage, and cut away some padding..


The G has seen gravel, snow and ice since then. Curiously, and even though I put in a fair distance aboard it, the "G" never did make me feel totally comfortable, but the GK felt good from the moment I bought it, and I had no qualms about taking it on a 3000 mile trip, shortly after I got it.



The helmet report is a bit disconcerting. I have met a few riders who have them, but none have gone down (or at least never and had their heads hit the ground)

Mysuzyq, one of our GS group has one, although it is not HJC. Tony: are you paying attention to this??

[AOD]

When he hit the ground the front of his helmet popped open exposing his face which is how he got cut up.

Convienience comes with a price. Not worth the risk, in my opinion.

[skip]

ddaum,
are you sure he had the helmet locked in the down position? On a few occasions I thought I had mine "snapped" in the down position and did not. You must hear it "click" in place. His inexperience might have played a part with the helmet comming open too.

[Boondocks]

I felt terrible because it was my idea to ride into and through the state park and I was leading. Not to mention that this nice looking bike was a whole two hours old before it went into the ditch. i keep kicking myself in the ass for not recommending that he get familiar with the bike in a parking lot before riding hills and twists, even if we weren't going fast. I just didn't think about it because I assumed he had more experience than he showed today.

I'm not trying to add to your guilt, but your bad feelings are justified. There are many accounts of inexperienced riders crashing in curves while trying to keep up with a faster rider even if he didn't think he was "going fast" (which is very relative to rider skill). Unless the know your riding partner well, there is the chance that he (or she) will think riding together is some kind of test, and he has to keep up or he's a "wimp".

When riding with someone who may be inexperienced and riding a new motorcycle, it would be appropriate to ask him to ride at a pace that is non-scary comfortable for them and let him lead. Don't follow too close, just close enough to observe his technique and errors without crowding or putting pressure on him to go faster.

If he runs off the road anyway (he probably won't), at least you have not contributed to it and can tell him where he went wrong. If he doesn't run off the road, if you know what you are doing you can give him some theory and tips to improve his riding.

[cruisinflatout]

I'm not trying to add to your guilt, but your bad feelings are justified. There are many accounts of inexperienced riders crashing in curves while trying to keep up with a faster rider even if he didn't think he was "going fast" (which is very relative to rider skill). Unless the know your riding partner well, there is the chance that he (or she) will think riding together is some kind of test, and he has to keep up or he's a "wimp".

When riding with someone who may be inexperienced and riding a new motorcycle, it would be appropriate to ask him to ride at a pace that is non-scary comfortable for them and let him lead. Don't follow too close, just close enough to observe his technique and errors without crowding or putting pressure on him to go faster.

If he runs off the road anyway (he probably won't), at least you have not contributed to it and can tell him where he went wrong. If he doesn't run off the road, if you know what you are doing you can give him some theory and tips to improve his riding.

I wouldn't have said it because the guy feels bad enough already - but I agree with what you've said here...

[skip]

I always try to Explain to anybody I ride with the first time that they should only ride at a pace that they are comfortable with. I always explain its not important for them to keep up and that I will always drop back to them when I see they are falling behind. "Dont ride over your head" and and "ride at your pace not mine" are repeated a few times. This is what all are group rides are based on. If you know that beyond a shadow of a doubt the bike in front of you is going to wait for you, you are less likley to try to keep up.

[ddaum]

I'm not trying to add to your guilt, but your bad feelings are justified. There are many accounts of inexperienced riders crashing in curves while trying to keep up with a faster rider even if he didn't think he was "going fast" (which is very relative to rider skill). Unless the know your riding partner well, there is the chance that he (or she) will think riding together is some kind of test, and he has to keep up or he's a "wimp".

When riding with someone who may be inexperienced and riding a new motorcycle, it would be appropriate to ask him to ride at a pace that is non-scary comfortable for them and let him lead. Don't follow too close, just close enough to observe his technique and errors without crowding or putting pressure on him to go faster.

If he runs off the road anyway (he probably won't), at least you have not contributed to it and can tell him where he went wrong. If he doesn't run off the road, if you know what you are doing you can give him some theory and tips to improve his riding.

These are all thoughts that have been running through my head. Hindsight is always 20/20. I agree with what you stated, to a point. Only because I myself am a new rider. I've only been riding for about eight months and I have never gone riding with anyone before at all, but I do know and understand the techniques for riding in groups that I learned in my state motorcycle riding program. I took the time to get familiar with my bike in one of the university's big parking lots before I ever went anywhere on it. He, and I just didn't think about this crucial step before he jumped on the bike and we went riding. Our mistake was that the less experienced rider wasn't leading, but at the same time, I didn't know his experience level.
I saw him in class again today and he's fine. He also rode the bike to class, so it's fine too. I guess these are all lessons learned that we can keep with us. Next time I ride with someone on an unfamiliar bike or a new rider, I will take your advice and talk more about experience, who will lead, and at what pace we will ride before we get on the bikes. Good advice, thanks.

I always try to Explain to anybody I ride with the first time that they should only ride at a pace that they are comfortable with. I always explain its not important for them to keep up and that I will always drop back to them when I see they are falling behind. "Dont ride over your head" and and "ride at your pace not mine" are repeated a few times. This is what all are group rides are based on. If you know that beyond a shadow of a doubt the bike in front of you is going to wait for you, you are less likley to try to keep up.

Also very good advice, thanks.

[fat_sac]

I had a friend go down last night. He bought an SV 650 from Houston and had a friend ride it back to Austin for him b/c he wasn't experienced enough to make the ride back. As they were pulling into town a woman pulled out in front of the bike and he low sided trying to miss the car. Damage was truly minimal given the speed and location of the accident. The rider was a little rashed and bruised, and there was oil in the airbox so it blew some smoke. All is well though, and ultimately he's glad it went down b/c it took the anticipation away, lol. Always sorry to hear about riders goin down.

[Boondocks]

You're welcome, ddaum.

If you are riding with someone else, you have the opportunity to improve if he is a better rider and will help you. If you are relatively inexperienced and ride with someone with little or no experience, you may have fun but you will learn nothing from him and he may learn little from you.

Improvement in any sport is associated with lots of practice and instruction from someone with advanced skills. Street riding is mostly mental, and unforgiving of mistakes in alertness or judgment. We all make mistakes, and survivors want to minimize and learn from them.

[Mysuzyq]

The helmet report is a bit disconcerting. I have met a few riders who have them, but none have gone down (or at least never and had their heads hit the ground)

Mysuzyq, one of our GS group has one, although it is not HJC. Tony: are you paying attention to this??

Yup...I'm all ears . I too like the convienience of my flip up helmet, but know fully well it won't have the structural integrity of a good, regular full face lid, especially with an impact directly to the chin bar . Once locked down properly, I have never been able to force open the front (tried once, with a few jabs from a gloved fist ), though again, in a crash, all bets are off as the impact will be hugely greater than my pathetic attempt.
Last season I snagged a great deal on a new Icon Alliance....it is a superior helmet in every way to my modular Zeus & now I tend to use it most of the time.

Tony.

[fatkid89704]

well i dont think you should feel bad.if he doesnt have much time on a bike how would you know.you have to assume someone buying a new bike knows how to ride it.but it is also a simple fact that if you ride you slide,its not if it is when and how bad.anyone who rides for very long has a spill or two and you just hope you dont get hurt very bad.at least that is my opinion.i ride with a local guy here in northern neveada where i live and he is a member of this site.as of right now my bike is still down and not running,but he lets me ride one of his and he knows there is allways a chance i could drop it.but he understands that i would help fix it.i have been riding since i was a little kid and have laid one down a time or two but it is allways a possiblity.thats about all i have to say.just dont blame yourself for someone else laying one down.look at the upside had he been in front of you he might have taken both of you down at the same time.

[Can_O_Tuna]

You're welcome, ddaum.

If you are riding with someone else, you have the opportunity to improve if he is a better rider and will help you.

I can tell you that riding behind more experienced riders makes you a better rider in the twisties. Riding down to the Dragon last year with Skip, Luke and Mark was like a 2 day racing school :-D

Everytime you are off your bike for more than a couple of weeks it is
imperative that you start slow and work your way faster. To jump on a new bike and try to ride it like you know it is a recipe for disaster. I hope your friend is ok. Seems like he got a good lesson without getting too banged up.

[Peppermint Patti]

ddaum...
Welcome to the forum...(missed lots of posts, sorry).
You have a conscience, that is what's important.
We are all learning, every day.

For some reason, that was meant to be.
You learned something.......He learned something.
Just thank (dare I say) God, it wasn't serious.

pmint