My Countersteering Story

[spyug]

I was taught to recite it...look right....push right....go right. I try to do it all the time and infact also recite observations and moves as I ride. This is a metholodgy taught to British m/c cops. It seems silly but it serves to keep you focused. You ride along and talk out everything you see and plan to do i.e "stop sign coming up in 500ft, gear down, gear down, front brake, check mirrors, stop, first gear, brake, look left, look ride, clear, go, shift up , shift up, check mirrors signal left, move left etc. etc.

They suggest you actualy vocalize it but after awhile you start to keep it in your head.

It works to keep you in the moment, give it a try.

Ride safe in 2008.

Chers all,
Spyug.

[Ludeykrus]

A very good point to make and remember.

I remember the first week I started riding, I got myself into a very hairy situation because I didn't know to countersteer. There was a medium-speed S-switchback where I took the first curve fine, but I could not get the bike to turn into the second curve....thank god the truck coming up saw what I was getting into and slowed down instead of turning me into a stain on the road!

[spyug]

I got into the same problem myself during the first season.Sharp 90 deg right turn to a steep downhill sweeper to a sharp 90 deg up hill with off and on cambers just to mix you up. Got to the bottom and turned only to drift into the oncoming downbound. Didn't have enough skill or knowledge to push over and get back into my lane. Luckily no one was coming down and i was able to wander back into my own lane with my heart ready to jump out of chest.

One thing I would also like to mention is that while learning to counter steer I don't recall them stressing to push harder to move further over, something that I learned through trial and error and something that saved me a time or two in the twisties.

In conjunction with countersteering, I think it would be very helpful if they taught new riders how to position for transitions through twists and turns. This was not mentioned in my course and I found it difficult to work out until I got the Proficient Motorcycle series and learned about delayed apexing and such. They might consider it an advanced skill but I nearly got creamed a time or two in the first season for not knowing where to position myself.

Just another thought or two.

Cheers all,
Spyug

[Greg O.]

I love the way the bike just leans into the turn with counter steering, then the way it stands right back up when pushing on the other hand grip. Never get tired of that feeling

Greg O

[Steve]

I took the ERC (Experienced RiderCourse) a couple of years ago, and it was pretty much a waste of time, IMHO.

The ERC could be a nice refresher if you're one of those 300 mile a year tavern-to-tavern poker run riders. But you'll likely learn more from taking a nice long trip somewhere far away with lots of curves to practice on, real weather to cope with and ride through, and real traffic that's trying to kill you.

Well,...I agree, sort of. I am not a "300 mile a year tavern-to-tavern poker run rider", but I tend to take the ERC every two years. Besides being a refresher, it is (in oHIo) a $25 expense that gives you a 10% discount on your insurance. We are insuring 3 riders on 4 bikes, so we are spending about $1200 per year, so that $25 expense drops about $120 off the bill. \\/

Yes, you can learn a LOT from the school of hard knocks, but it's nice to be prepared when you go out there.

Oh, you want proof that I'm not only doing 300 miles a year?

Bought my Wing in October, 2005, it had 90,950 miles on it. It's sitting in the garage right now with 125,540 on the odometer. That's 34,590 in 26 months. I slowed down a bit this year due to unemployment. 20,052 of those miles were in the first 13 months, but only 14,538 in the last 13 months.


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[Roostabunny]

A good book is Lee Parks: Total Control

Glad for the recommendation for Total Control - that one's already at the top of my Amazon wishlist. Actually, what I really wish is that they had it at the public library, but oh well. If it lives up to the title (with practice, of course) it'll be worth a lot more than they're charging.

I read someone somewhere say something like "be working on something on every ride". Might have even been on this forum. Anyway, sorry about the vague reference, but it just seems like a good attitude. Every ride requires a whole group of skills, but it's good to focus on practicing something specific each time as well. For example, today I'll focus on smooth braking. Tomorrow, looking through my turns.

[gustovh]

I remember taking a ride on hwy 26, climbing up the west side of Mt. Hood on my 450 Rebel. I was following my brother Eldon on a 78 1100 Guzi, a former police bike. We were clipping along around 70 mph. well into a left hand turn. I was about out of traction, when I looked up and Eldon's a$$ was hanging off his seat and his front wheel was at about a 15 deg. angle. Then I remembered to counter-steer and got my traction back.

I was so caught up in the ride, I forgot something so basic. Since that day, all my turns have been iniciated with a push. It has become instinctive to follow the surface of the road and let the forks do their thing.
It surprises me some times how much the bars move in a corner on a rough road. I think the trick is to become intimately familiar with the bike on which you ride and how it handles on different road surfaces. I am usually a moderate rider, but sometimes find myself in the grove, and ride a little quicker- if you know what I mean.
One of the publications that I read, usually has all kinds of tips on riding and gear, is Motorcycle Consumer News. There is always a riding tip, and quite often several page discussions on things such as cornering and counter-steering. But I ramble.
V

[zig06]

You know, correct me if I'm wrong, but your 850 is shaft drive.

So what's the chance of that torquing up as you were accelerating out of the turn, and that's what caused your "moment"?

So just to help us learn from your near miss, exactly what model is your 850? And were you taking a left or a right turn? Finally, is there any other 850 owners out there with this model that have experienced "torque" steer?

Excellent job on saving it. But going beyond saving it, is knowing what your bike can and can't do and staying within what it can do. This will keep your rides ending happily ever after.

[IOWA450T]

'81 Gs850g

Yes it is shaft drive. I don't know the particulars of "torque steer" but have read here that it was a problem with some early shaft drives but not the Suzukis.
It was a left hander; I think the most likely cause of my "moment" was simply a lack of understanding of how to approach a corner properly on my part. Upon the reccomendation of several folks here I am currently working my way thru Proficient Motorcycling and have come to realize that I have probably done a very poor job of setting up corners in the past. I don't think that I was necessarily carrying too much speed into the corner but most likely just picked a line that had me apexing early and drifting to the outside more than I realized I would. Out of Slow, Look, Lean, and Roll I think I usually only get the "Roll" part right (if that!). If these single digit temps ever go away I intend to spend a lot of time with this book in my saddlebag; read, try to duplicate what it says, stop, read some more, repeat.

[Steve]

You know, correct me if I'm wrong, but your 850 is shaft drive.

So what's the chance of that torquing up as you were accelerating out of the turn, and that's what caused your "moment"?

In most of the magazine reports on the 850s back when they were being actively promoted and sold, the test riders were almost always amazed how little 'shaft effect' there was. Having owned several shaft-drive bikes, I have to say that my wife's 850L has about the least 'shaft effect' of any of them. 8-[


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[MelodicMetalGod]

Countersteering - The ONLY way to turn

Countersteering Explained

The above link is the Wikipedia entry for countersteering. Like most riders, I grew up thinking that countersteering was a "technique" and this it only came into play at speeds above 5 or 10 mph. The reality is that countersteering is the only physically possible way to turn a single track vehicle to turn. There are complicated physics at work that I have never fully intellectualized. The good news is that you don't have to understand or even be aware of the physics to use them effectively. In fact, a lot of folks seem to get confused when they are educated about the physics and then over-think the process of turning a bike. For me, I like to read up on the physics from time to time to understand as much as possible, but I try to NEVER think about that stuff when I'm riding. My body, like most folks, has learned what it needs to do to address a given turn, weave, etc. and I just enjoy the ride.

Bottom line: If you've ridden or pushed a bicycle or a motorcycle and successfully turned the vehicle, then you've experienced countersteering, because there's simply no other way to turn the vehicle.