Advice on downhill curves?

[pmong]

A Shaft Drive Automatic?! Cool, that's a keeper, unless you sell it to me.
Chopping the throttle while in a corner will drop the suspension (Shaft Drive) and you might Ground Out, seen it happen.
Typically on a descending 270 degree hiway ramp, right where it ends and the turn can actually tighten up.
You get comfortable with the lean/speed, then it surprises you with a last second tightening curve, so you chop throttle and bottom out.
Most pronounced when carrying a passenger.

The "Standing Up" effect of Front Braking occurs when in corners, when the Handle Bars are Not straight.
In a straight line the weight of Bike + Rider will end up on the Front End, nosediving.
But in a turn, all the Triangles/Geometry gets complicated.
Your Front Forks are not Vertical, they are out at an Angle (Rake Angle).
Are your Front Axels on the Leading Side of Forks?, Trailing Side, or direct under the Bottom of Fork?
When turning, your Front Tire Contact patch is no longer in a direct line with the bike, its now off to the side. Offset Triangles now.
It gets Complicated. End result is, the Front End rises And tries to straighten up the bike (Hard Braking in a Turn).
Rember, your Front Contact Patch is already under duress, hard braking Front can be asking too much.
If I'm getting in too hot, I'll pull in Clutch and use both brakes to save my sorry hide
(yes, its been burned before, though I have yet to win the "Off Road Reconnaissance Award").
These effects occur at the Fringes of the Handling Dynamics.
Normal riding should be peaceful, shouldn't scare you.
I'm glad you're asking, thinking (When in Doubt,,.. Think!).
Don't over-think it (well not yet) and don't think too much when riding, it should be natural.

Thanks for the additional information. I enjoy the GS450GA, particularly while in town because it makes life easier with all the traffic. Initially, a little strange not clutching and shifting. One thing, impossible to disengage the engine with a squeeze of the left hand.

I have yet to brake hard with front brake while into a turn, and hope not to. I was told that the problem with such an action is that you get more forward weight shift, thus risking having the rear wheel skid out.

Will not over think riding, but good to know the logic behind certain actions. This provides me with a better sense of security knowing that, but I agree that actions and reactions should be second nature, which comes with practicing the right maneuvers.

[pmong]

Some very good points in this thread (and some bad...).
Just yesterday I rode my new GS1000 700 km, across two mountain ranges. Ups and downs, lots of curves and twisties, but also highways.
I had one incident where a downhill right hand curve was tighter than I had anticipated, and it really is among my least favourite kinds of trouble to be in.
My instinct was to downshift quickly and lift my head to look where I wanted to go, and then to keep a fair amount of throttle going for control. It worked, but I was almost fully across the center line (if there had been one) of the road, and meeting traffic would have been way scary.

There is no better way to avoid this than to follow the advice from tkent above: Haul ass uphill, go slow downhill.

Thanks for sharing this. It does tell me that even experience riders can misjudge a curve, so it is useful to be prepare when that happens by knowing what is the best course of action. Cannot agree with you about tkent's advice.

[pmong]

Many, many people have used too much front brake near the apex of a curve, resulting in them either heading across the centerline (sometimes into an oncoming vehicle), or into the ditch.

Too much rear brake going hot into a curve can cause the rear end to start wobbling, which can result in the worst case wreck, high siding over the bike into the oncoming traffic (or outside side road ditch with a big dropoff).

Several times I've been riding behind someone in curves, and see their brakelight flash while in the curve. They instantly lose their line, the bike is destabilized, and they start to go wide. How much the bike is affected is determined by how hard they're braking and how fast they were going. The skill of the rider (i.e. experience and coolness under pressure) inevitably determines if the outcome is happy or not.

Ouch! I have gotten to the point where NOT braking while in a curve is the reaction, even when going in too hot. Still not automatically second nature, but getting there. Just need practice, practice, and more practice.

[Griffin]

Ouch! I have gotten to the point where NOT braking while in a curve is the reaction, even when going in too hot. Still not automatically second nature, but getting there. Just need practice, practice, and more practice.

Remember though, if you're going to crash and you have no other choice, brake and try to keep it rubber side down.

[pmong]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is the "accelrating through the curve" philosophy, and how it applies to steep downhill curves.

Normally, we are taught that you want to reduce speed before entering the curve, maintain it through the front part, then smoothly accelerate out of it by rolling on some throttle. When you are going downhill, gravity is already accelerating you through the curve, so rolling on the throttle the same amount as on a flat curve will accelerate you much more quickly.

Descending radius curves going downhill are where people really get into trouble. They are maintaining throttle position, gravity is accelerating them, the curve gets tighter, and they've already lost their engine braking revs.

Agree, taking downhill curves is very different, and particularly problematic for me when misjudge the tightness. Very disconcerting. Here to learn new skills from those much better than me.

[tkent02]

Here to learn new skills from those much better than me.

That would be to go slow on steep downhill curves.

[Hovmod]

Yeah, the best advice is to never crash.

[earlfor]

That would be to go slow on steep downhill curves.

Yep, always go slower than you think you will need to. Sometimes the only solution to a surprise is something you really will not like. It doesn't matter how fast you are in the curves if you can't come out the other side.

[tkent02]

It doesn't matter how fast you are in the curves if you can't come out the other side.

Uphill curves any moron can come out the other side in one piece. Downhill curves, not so much.

[earlfor]

Uphill curves any moron can come out the other side in one piece. Downhill curves, not so much.

True that! heh

[pmong]

Yeah, the best advice is to never crash.

This is a rule I can live with!!! Now, only if I can figure out how to live within the rule.

[TheCafeKid]

One piece of advice I tend to give to every new-ish rider that asks me for such, and it may have been mentioned already but it kind of got glossed over:

Keep your revs up. I have encountered many newer or "new to curved roads" riders who either feel that they're going to hurt the bike by constantly spinning it at 7k rpm, or are so used to just loafing around in fourth or fifth gear that they find themselves getting into a lot of trouble on twisty roads, ESPECIALLY downhill portions. By running into corners, especially tighter corners where youre forced to slow down and or lean hard, in higher gears, the rear wheel can in some cases be spinning faster than the crank of the engine. This causes a "free wheel" effect. Remember when having free wheel on your bicycle was cool? Well the free wheel action whilst steaming into a corner on a 500lb motorcycle isn't cool. It causes a number of things to possibly create "pucker moments" (that instant you realize that you're in the corner Wayyy to hot..) for inexperienced riders that forces a lot of action by the rider in a very short span of time. If any ONE of these actions is second guessed, performed incorrectly, or not at all, the result can be quite painful at worst, and damn scary at best.

For starters, keeping the revs up by selecting correct gearing prior to the corner (combined with whatever braking you've decided is appropriate) will allow the bike to slow some via compression braking (aka engine braking). This is important because it allows you to slow the bike without using so much brake, which can upset the balance of the center of gravity. Ideally, for a newer rider, the center of gravity should be situated as close to the center of the bike as possible. Applying front brakes will push the CG toward the front, (which for a rider with more experience can be helpful, but requires a good feel and understanding of the forces at work, and what the bike is telling you is going on under you) while applying throttle will push the CG to the rear of the bike (again, can be helpful in certain situations). If you roll into a corner in a high gear, you're not going to have that compression brakin to help you, and if something is amiss mid corner, you're going to have to rely on brakes alone, or throttle , or lean angle changes mid corner etc which all can upset the chassis and can cause some hairy situations.

Selecting the right gear for a given turn requires some experience with your particular bike, and understanding of your comfort level. But a general rule of thumb that worked well for me when I was learning this was this:
If the yellow "suggested speed" sign for the corner starts with a "2" (ie 20MPh, 25MPH etc) second gear is likely the correct gear, if it starts with a "3" then third gear and so on.

Once you gain some experience, and it you choose to push a little harder in corners, you may find that second and third gear are where you spend most of your time.
And don't be afraid that youre hurting the bike by revving it. These girls like to spin, and will happily crank out 7K RPM all day long like its a walk in the park. You just have to get used to the fact that it's an air-cooled motor, and it will make a lot of sound that's not dampened by a water jacket and noise reducing equipment that modern bikes and cars have.

[mrbill5491]

"If the yellow "suggested speed" sign for the corner starts with a "2" (ie 20MPh, 25MPH etc) second gear is likely the correct gear, if it starts with a "3" then third gear and so on.

The sign says, 5 mph in the corner. oh oh Huston we have a problem lol.

[Griffin]

The sign says, 5 mph in the corner. oh oh Huston we have a problem lol.

That means it's a 5th gear W.O.T. curve, right?

[tkent02]

Wow, you guys really look at those signs?
Lame.