Goodbye Garmin? Maybe the App has finally arrived?

[Chuck78]

Several things to add here, and questions unanswered...

I absolutely love Google Maps, but they finally improved in the past year after several years of taking a perfect app and desktop classic Maps version, and ruining it... although the latest phone version I downloaded really was terrible versus the previous version I had. Google is hit-or-miss. They have the capability to have the best product on the market, but they always waste it in a blunderous fashion.

Several years ago, when the app and desktop classic version were perfect, you could add up to 26 different addresses on the driving directions. That totally went away, but now is back with 10 addresses to input. You can work around that by signing into my maps on a desktop and creating your own map, and then you can at least click the route and drag it to manipulate it over different roads, but those points you can only have as a an arbitrary point on the map, not an address input.

Due to Google making the best apps and online maps, and then continuously ruining them in a blunderous manor, I have always been interested in finding another good phone app to use as a custom route GPS navigator.

As of now, I still resort to spending hours on the computer memorizing the routes and using street view and satellite view to help with that, and writing out or typing out very small abbreviated directions sheets that I can even tape in the center of my speedometer and tachometer faces. R or L for right or left, road name, and mileage...

I tried several apps very briefly at home, but was intimidated by them and how to get them set up to navigate custom routes. Locus seemed like it had potential to be the absolute best. But I never seem to master it quickly and have not gotten back to it since.



Brian, I also have a Samsung Galaxy (S5) Active. Water-resistant, impact-resistant case, and one of the better smartphones to put iPhone to shame.





A few friends of mine have magnetic tank bags with a clear map pocket that they can put their phones into. And on board Android USB charger cords. One of my buddies has a really serious Velcro attachment on his phone case, and also on his tank bag, and a lanyard type safety leash to boot. This is pretty awesome.



I just recently got the Ohio, West Virginia, and Virginia DeLorme Atlas&Gazetteer editions (look for the newest versions possible for better topo views and better font sizes - note black background on bars on cover that list selling features of the Atlas "campgrounds, scenic points to explore, boat ramps, etc" with black background vs the older versions in blue or not shown at all).

These are really awesome to have, although a bit large for my road bags but well worth it. Best paper maps I've ever seen. I read that Garmin just bought DeLorme me and plans to continue the DeLorme business and release new updated editions.
For me, this sounded like DeLorme map information and awesomeness could get imported into the Garmin software, which sounds like we could have a really big winner there for a dedicated navigation device.
I have never used a Garmin though, and have only witnessed my dad using an ancient version of a Garmin to navigate in his truck. So I don't really have any real experience on using these. Being able to use my smartphone with step by step directions via Bluetooth headset sounds like the best route, and a ziplock bag in the rain doesn't sound too bad. Or tank bag with map pocket...


I'm anxious to see where this discussion goes.

[Chuck78]

I gave up.
...if it takes that much effort/practice/expertise, and I am paying $ 500 for my allegedly motorcycle specific Garmin, then something is wrong.

Google/Scenic is making it too easy. I have great trip to CA coming up next week, and it took me about 5 minutes to load 3 dependable and customized routes into my phone tonight.
We'll see if it works as advertised.

Well, how is the Scenic app working for you?

I looked up your advrider thread, and it clearly says that there are no current plans to make that for anything but iPhones. I much prefer the superiority of the Android operating system flexibility and customizability, as well as being able to choose the model and functionality and price of my smartphone device... I wish they would make of this or something great for Android, or make a Locus easier to use!
I have both an iPhone and an iPad for work. The iPad, I would just as soon through it out the window on the highway and watch large trucks crush it! My Android smartphone works about 10 times better than that thing, and the iPhone is not much further from that.
I have like every Samsung Galaxy I have had since the S2 and above. This S5 Active is pretty great although the AT&T version is the worst of them as far as memory and customizability with custom ROMS. $80 used, I should have gotten my native T-Mobile version for $150 used. Waterproof dustproof and shock resistant with a heavy-duty case built-in. The S6 is similar but does not have a removable battery. This is fine if you have one of those portable charging packs. I always have carried multiple Android batteries with me on trips on phones with replaceable batteries.


I need to look into Locus and Open Street Maps etc a little bit more.
I also have downloaded these Android apps:
GPS Essentials (perhaps in top 3 if I could figure out custom driving directions)
Backcountry Navigator Demo
Garmin Earthmate
Navigon
My Maps
My Trails
BRouter (iirc to supplement Locus?)
Voyager
+ Locus Maps Tweaks & Locus - Offline Maps add-ons

Now I just need to dedicate some time to learning how to use some of these, and hopefully they have gotten better in the past year or two since I last had just slightly begun to investigate how to use them. I actually paid for the pro version of Locus because it seem to have the most potential. Still it was intimidating though. I only wish that any of these apps were as easy to use as Google is on a good Google day. But Google keeps trying to fix Google Maps when Google Maps has been at its historical best, and very far from ever being broken and eating fixed! But basically ruin it every so often for quite some time and spend many months to get back to being as good as it was. Before the Vector Technology introduction, classic Google Maps was the best thing ever to happen for a phone app or desktop web-based map program.

[earlfor]

So....
Am I the only guy that still just looks at a paper map, writes down the route, and sticks it in my tank bag pocket?

I have a GPS on the bike, but I found it much easier to mark a route on a map, and write a crib sheet of way points, mileages, etc to stick on the tank for the day. Besides that, my written notes have never screamed turn around, turn around, turn, turn at me, which I really hate. LOL

[salty_monk]

I use Google Maps or Waze through my Sena & listen rather than look... works for me even here in LA.

Waze just introduced a bike setting: https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/w...fic-navigation

I haven't used it as yet.

On a long journey I use a Power bank, connect it to my phone & then put them together in my pocket. Insulated from Weather, vibration et al.

[LAB3]

Back in the 80's I was one of the first people outside the military to use GPS. Our outfit used it for high accuracy surveying and the office geeks where putting together what would later evolve into Geographic Information Systems (GIS) which is the basis of all the mapping programs out there.

A couple of years ago when I finally got my smart phone I noticed something. Having Google Maps in my pocket actually seemed to make me less aware of where I was.

Maps are a pain to follow on a bike, but you pay more attention to road signs, landmarks and even the little towns sometimes. This overall lack of awareness seems to translate itself in my riding experience as well since my mind has a chance to wander more due to not having to pay attention to the little things along the way.

[Chuck78]

A couple of years ago when I finally got my smart phone I noticed something. Having Google Maps in my pocket actually seemed to make me less aware of where I was.

Maps are a pain to follow on a bike, but you pay more attention to road signs, landmarks and even the little towns sometimes. This overall lack of awareness seems to translate itself in my riding experience as well since my mind has a chance to wander more due to not having to pay attention to the little things along the way.

Yes I definitely agree on that... To date, all of my navigation of motorcycle trip routes has come after extensive map layout and research on my computer generally, sometimes google maps on my smartphone, and used to create my little tiny abbreviated typed lists to tape to my tach and speedo faces and gas tank, or else I just end up memorizing the entire route due to extensive time spent plotting routes on my computer. Using satellite view and street view to familiarize myself with what the actual landscape looks like from a riding perspective, but from my computer desk, really helps to know what to expect.

This method is a bit of an advancement over stopping to look at paper maps all the time on the road, but certainly takes a lot more homework. printing out paper maps of your routes is a good middleground.

[Chuck78]

I looked into the Scenic app, and apparently the developer of it has started a kickstarter or gofundme type website campaign to raise funds to hire an android developer to work alongside him and build an android version of the Scenic app that is only available currently for Apple's proprietary devices' operating systems. The developer of the Scenic app is ONLY an Apple iOS developer, and is not saavy with Android in the same fashion.

This is really great news to me, because I watched video reviews of maybe 30 or so different navigation apps in terms of use for motorcycle custom routes, and honestly I have to say pretty much every one of them was severely lacking in functionality and ease of use or amount of functions available, EXCEPT for Scenic for Steve Jobs' products. It had pretty much every feature that I would want in a motorcycle custom routes navigation app, and was very advanced, but seemed very well laid out and appeared to be something that would not be overly daunting to learn how to use and master,


Having this app for Android would really make it easier for my extended route planing for unfamiliar territory further from home than my usual 10 hour round trip loops take me... But you know I think I still would be close to in tune to the same degree with my surroundings because I would have still spent an extensive amount of time on the computer with Google Maps Terrain and Satellite views, and also some time spent with my nose in my new paper copies of Ohio/West Virginia/Virginia editions of DeLorme Atlas and Gazetteer....
Due to the oversize nature of the DeLorme Atlases, I think I am going to make color copies of these at FedEx Office and only take the 8 r 12 or so pages of these maps with me. and likely scan those same pages into my computer. The map format on the newest editions of DeLorme even beats out the Google Maps in my opinion, as far as the road line markings etc. The DeLorme's from the 2000's were a bit harder to read with small font and not as good of differentiation in the line style for different levels of roads.

He mentioned on his website that he hoped to have some sort of Android product rolled out with his spring 2018 iOS update, but I saw no other mention of this on his website, nor did I even see a link to any kickstarter or gofundme campaign webpage to donate money to get this project off the ground for Android.



On a personal note...
I have a Samsung Galaxy S5 Active (May get an S6 Active and a seperate portable charging pack since the batteries are like iPhones in S6 and not removable, I carried multiple fully charged Galaxy S2/S4/S5 batteries with me on road trips typically, always camping), and for work, I have an iPhone 6 and an iPad. They finally got wise and are giving us MS Surface Pro tablets instead of iPads, due to most of us having such extensive problems with the iPads. From my iPhone experience of 3 years occupationally, vs my personal Android use for many more, I will NEVER foresee myself using an iPhone by choice! So I will be ecstatic to see a Scenic app for Androids... Soooooo many more options for Androids as far as cheap phones, nice phones, very advanced phones... more flexibility on custom ROM's (non-stock customized versions of the Andriod operating system) for even better user experience and phone performance...).

[850 Combat]

Several things to adhere, and questions unanswered...

I absolutely love Google Maps, but they finally improved in the past year after several years of taking a perfect app and desktop classic Maps version, and ruining it... although the latest phone version I downloaded really was terrible versus the previous version I had. Google is hit-or-miss. They have the capability to have the best product on the market, but they always waste it in a blunderous fashion.

Several years ago, when the app and desktop classic version were perfect, you could add up to 26 different addresses on the driving directions. That totally went away, but now is back with 10 addresses to input. You can work around that by signing into my maps on a desktop and creating your own map, and then you can at least click the route and drag it to manipulate it over different roads, but those points you can only have as a an arbitrary point on the map, not an address input.

Due to Google making the best apps and online maps, and then continuously ruining them in a blunderous manor, I have always been interested in finding another good phone app to use as a custom route GPS navigator.

As of now, I still resort to spending hours on the computer memorizing the routes and using street view and satellite view to help with that, and writing out or typing out very small abbreviated directions sheets that I can even tape in the center of my speedometer and tachometer faces. R or L for right or left, road name, and mileage...

I tried several apps very briefly at home, but was intimidated by them and how to get them set up to navigate custom routes. Locus seemed like it had potential to be the absolute best. But I never seem to master it quickly and have not gotten back to it since.



Brian, I also have a Samsung Galaxy (S5) Active. Water-resistant, impact-resistant case, and one of the better smartphones to put iPhone to shame.





A few friends of mine have magnetic tank bags with a clear map pocket that they can put their phones into. And on board Android USB charger cords. One of my buddies has a really serious Velcro attachment on his phone case, and also on his tank bag, and a lanyard type safety leash to boot. This is pretty awesome.



I just recently got the Ohio, West Virginia, and Virginia DeLorme Atlas&Gazetteer editions (look for the newest versions possible for better topo views and better font sizes - note black background on bars on cover that list selling features of the Atlas "campgrounds, scenic points to explore, boat ramps, etc" with black background vs the older versions in blue or not shown at all).

These are really awesome to have, although a bit large for my road bags but well worth it. Best paper maps I've ever seen. I read that Garmin just bought DeLorme me and plans to continue the DeLorme business and release new updated editions.
For me, this sounded like DeLorme map information and awesomeness could get imported into the Garmin software, which sounds like we could have a really big winner there for a dedicated navigation device.
I have never used a Garmin though, and have only witnessed my dad using an ancient version of a Garmin to navigate in his truck. So I don't really have any real experience on using these. Being able to use my smartphone with step by step directions via Bluetooth headset sounds like the best route, and a ziplock bag in the rain doesn't sound too bad. Or tank bag with map pocket...


I'm anxious to see where this discussion goes.

If you like Delorme Gazeteers, you will like Delorme Streets. By far,it is the best trip planning software I have used. You can print out trip sheets from it, too. It also comes with a GPS which plugs into a USB port and suction cups to the windshield, which turns your device into a big screen GPS following your map. It doesn't follow the road ahead, like my Garmin always returns to, it follows the map, which I prefer. Not that useful on a bike though, at least with my laptop. I have more than 26 waypoints just planning a trip from Orange County to my brother's house in Phoenix. I don't need a GPS to find interstate highways. I need tools to put me on interesting roads while avoiding interstates. I don't want to drive 120 miles out of my way to avoid 10 miles of interstate,

[Chuck78]

I will definitely check out DeLorme Streets. I assume that you have to buy it for subscribe to it or something?

I researched a bit on Android apps, and found a Nexus S7 article on using it without a SIM card as a motorcycle GPS. It had these nice descriptions:


Navigate 6: A favourite for overall navigation and planning use, primarily off-line with search and custom service enhancements when on-line.

CoPilot GPS: Another favourite, great offline mapping capabilities including extensive route planning and local exploration options, has a specific motorcycle preference option, multiple route options and there are lots of variations for local or international travel.

MapFactor: GPS Navigation, very good tool, need to use this one more.

Navfree: Recently updated with HD maps, great focus on off-line mapping with search and customized services available when on-line.

OsmAnd Maps and Navigation: Automated Navigation Directions, map and navigation, uses OpenStreetMap (OSM) data, off or on-line, very good data services to interact via the OSM community and other users.

Maps With Me Lite: Totally off-line use app, very good international coverage, updates via OSM when on-line.

Mobile Atlas Creator (MOBAC): Download Google maps and other maps and create your own atlas in this open source application.


I spent my lunch break evaluating the apps that I had downloaded on my phone, and deleted several out of the 8 or so navigation apps. Some are just for backcountry hiking or fishing spots etc. My Trails and Backcountry Navigator seemed the best for that, but I can do the same thing with Google Maps or hopefully whatever navigation app I choose

I downloaded yet another, after finding out that bestbikingroads.com (great twisty roads database) has a motorcycle navigation Best Biking Roads app, although it seems like it is just a glorified version of their website that will navigate routes on their website or routes that you create to be posted on their website. It is incredibly easy to create a route on the app though. Their website seems to have the best maps of a region to choose from motorcycle routes. The comments are not as thorough, and I use MotorcycleRoads.us to read comments on current road conditions as they are chronological and thorough.

GPS Essentials seems like a really great app, but I still have not figured out how to layout a custom route within the app. I think I used it one time several years ago to navigate a test run, but never fiddled with it more. Or perhaps that was Locus Maps that I tried. One of the two. I think I paid for the premium version of Locus Maps which was only like $4. I also have Open Street Maps' OsmAnd app.
Between those, Scenic. I think those are going to be the best that I have looked at. I have not explored the ones listed above though. Night time reading.

And I also need to look into the DeLorme Streets app. I'm gonna bet it's a real good one based on the extent of their paper maps.

[Chuck78]

If you like Delorme Gazeteers, you will like Delorme Streets. By far,it is the best trip planning software I have used. You can print out trip sheets from it, too. It also comes with a GPS which plugs into a USB port and suction cups to the windshield, which turns your device into a big screen GPS following your map. It doesn't follow the road ahead, like my Garmin always returns to, it follows the map, which I prefer. Not that useful on a bike though, at least with my laptop. I have more than 26 waypoints just planning a trip from Orange County to my brother's house in Phoenix. I don't need a GPS to find interstate highways. I need tools to put me on interesting roads while avoiding interstates. I don't want to drive 120 miles out of my way to avoid 10 miles of interstate,

I don't think they offer DeLorme Streets anymore now that Garmin bought DeLorme. All I can find in the Android app store is Garmin Earthmate by DeLorme.

I know with Open Street Maps and/or Locus Maps, you can use DeLorme as the base map layer. Is this perhaps what you were referring to? Or was there actually a DeLorme app?

[bwringer]

I'm still fairly happy with my S6 Active and Locus Pro. Happy enough, anyway. I suppose I could keep experimenting, but from everything I can tell, no one's come up with that perfect motorcycle mapping app.

I've heard some good things about Rever, but it's a subscription and from what I can tell it requires a data connection -- they do have a sort of workaround for offline maps (I believe it's the same as Google Maps -- designate an area and it'll grab the data for the region), but by all accounts it doesn't work that well. It will still track where you've been and load up a map as soon as you've got a signal again. For me, no offline maps = automatic no go. The best places to ride don't have a cell signal.

I had quite a few bugs with Osmand so I switched over to Locus a while back. Of course, maybe the Osmand bugs I experienced have been fixed since then.

I'll also be the first to say that the Locus user interface is... unusual. Lots of weird translations. The developers and most of the user base are in Europe, so there's not a lot of information available in English. The Osmand interface is also very strange in its own strange way.

My Locus Pro install is set up with offline maps and topo shading. For some unfathomable Germanic reason, you first have to buy a supply of "LoCoins", then you use LoCoins to buy and download the state maps you want. I think I spent $4 or $5 and got enough LoCoins to get pretty much all the states I'd ever be able to reach. Not a big deal, just weird.

My S6 Active is about 2.5 years old at this point, so battery capacity is significantly reduced. (It did get updated to Android 7, which was cool.) I have charging setups on all my bikes, so it's not a problem. And even with a new battery, it still wouldn't last very long with the screen on full bright (the S6 Active is designed for outdoor use, so the screen will go a lot brighter and with more contrast than a normal phone screen to make sure it's still visible in full sun -- this uses a lot of power) and GPS turned on all the time. So a power connection is mandatory. Not a problem with a decent quality SAE to USB charger, but cheap chargers often don't work at all or fail quickly.

I'm still working on a decent way to seal the charging cable to the charger and the phone port to keep water out, although this is only really an issue during all-day hard rain. (If you're clever with cable routing, you can position the charger with the USB port down so it doesn't get any drips.)

I also try to use a silicone plug or a wee bit of tape in the phone's headphone port on top if it's going to be wet; if water gets in it can sometimes cause the phone to believe headphones are plugged in. I've found it's best to keep a few different cables on hand, and if charging gets intermittent just swap in the next. Some cables last months, some fail in a few weeks, and there's little consistency among brands.

I use inductive charging at night and at the office, and I think this greatly reduces wear on the charging port. My phones only seem to die when the charge port wears out.

One thing I did discover a while back is a website called https://www.gpsies.com (GyPSIES, get it?). Sign up for a free account, and you can very quickly create GPX tracks, save them, and then download them to your phone. I've used this many times to convert a paper route or a memorized route to a track. It's fantastic. I believe you can also load and edit GPX tracks.

I also use a website called https://gpx2kml.com/ regularly to convert GPX tracks to the KML version used by Google. That way, I can load up a track and look at it in Google maps on my computer screen.

For example, I snaffle up dual-sport tracks from ADVrider, then review them on my computer screen to make sure the roads still seem to exist and are legal -- some of those guys will take off down a private farm road or driveway without a second thought. Obviously, you can't tell for sure until you're actually there, but when you see a track go across a field then cross a creek several times, you generally want to look for an alternate route.

[Chuck78]

Great info Brian...
I have not used Locus Pro, OSMAnd, or GPS Essentials on the bike yet, but all 3 seem to be very powerful apps. I want GPS Essentials to be as good due to the advanced features on there, but I'm not convinced yet that it will be the bet for road navigation (does off road, nautical, and even airplane/helicopter navigation, Advanced features galore).

To top it off, just typing "Motorcycle Navigation" into Google Play Store app search, I now have two more good sounding apps on my phone. The first I read a vety good motorcycle review of, TourStart, and the 2nd is called MyRoutes.
One needed to download a bunch I'd maps to my phone first (my SD card is dead, phone full...), the other wanted me to sign into it firsy, so that's as far as I got. I paid the $3.99 to upgrade to Locus Pro a year or two ago, but haven't fiddled with it since.

I honestly think if this guy doing the Scenic app for iOS ends up getting a good Android developer hired, that will he the absolute best motorcycle navigation app there is. I don't give a darn about social features on apps, I want to research and pick out my own route, and input it myself!!! Then have turn by turn navigation on the app, not just the basic "follow the line" type of nav format. I don't care as much about my tracks either. I research the routes so much that I'll remember it all, and any deviations I should be able to pick out later. No need to clog up more phone space.


There was however one other app that I thought sounded really great for other purposes, maybe to fill on the gaps between the ultimate twisty routes and the more blaND areas. I can't remember the name of it, but the app had 3 different modes, and basically would pick out on its own fie you a very very twisty route between two points, a moderately twisty route that's only a little ways off the beaten path, and a more direct route while still hitting any roads with curves that it can find in the immediate path.

Darnit I forgot the name!!!! It was in an article with Tourstart, Rever, and 4 or so others...
Not something I'd use all the time, but nice for when you don't have a must-ride area planned and just want to be guided onto a fun non-superslab route without any time investment ahead of time.

[Chuck78]

Oh Yeah. One thing I really thought was awesome was that OSMAnd & I believe Locus had a check box to route you only on paved roads!!!!
I bought the DeLorme Atlas and Gazetteer editions for my 3 closest favorite Appalachian regions, in hopes that it told me gravel vs chipseal vs paved, but no go...
Google Satellite with some zooming in can help here but you always have that big question mark lingering still.... would be nice to have a way to find out.
A freshly chiseled road may as well be gravel alsi, so you can't really rely on them. Seeing them worn in on satellite view and seeing the black streaks of tat coming through after the gravel I'd beyond bedded in is a good sign of chioseal. Gravel and fresh chipseal on satellite imagery shows lighter tracks where the vehicle tires travel, and areas around intersections are very telltale with bigger lighter colored dusty areas, and dust tracks tracked out onto the paved roads (yellow paint lines give away the paved or well chipsealed surfaces)

[Downs]

I like Locus and am currently using it and do not plan to go back to my old Garmin ZUMO 550 anytime soon. If ever again. In app route planning is super easy and you can drag the routes to where you want them to go.

[Downs]

The only issue with apps is that the phone is not water proof or shock proof but I hear what you're saying.

Depends on model. My Galaxy is IP68 rated. the 6 meaning that it's totally protected from dust ingress and the 8 meaning it's rated for "long term immersion up to a rated amount of time". In the case of the galaxy that's a half hour at 5 feet or almost 2 meters. I added an armored case to further shield it against rough handling.