How Many Practice?

[Grimly]

Bob, I think you're missing his point.


300,000 miles, I'll never be that good at riding motorcycles.

300K? Pah. The Iron Butters can kiss my ass.
I can tell you one thing for sure; if you're not actually learning during all those miles, you're just looking for the scene of your next accident.
Ask any courier who survived the melee for long enough.

[allojohn]

if you're not actually learning during all those miles, you're just looking for the scene of your next accident.

LOL, I have to remember that one Dave....

[Dogma]

I think it would be a really useful skill, to do a slow 180 turn around on a 2 lane road riding a GS1100G.
As it is I gotta do a see/saw back an forth getting the big thing pointed back the way I came.

I've been working on this on my 1000G. It can be done, but I'm not nearly 100% on it yet. It goes better if I don't think about it. I think about it a lot less if there isn't a steep drop where the berm ought to be.

[Dogma]

If courses are lacking in your area, try this guy’s videos.

https://youtube.com/@MotoJitsu

I've found this one to interesting and entertaining: https://www.youtube.com/@MotoControlEn/videos

Of course, watching videos doesn't do nearly as much good as getting out and doing some drills.

[Rob S.]

I think it would be a really useful skill, to do a slow 180 turn around on a 2 lane road riding a GS1100G.
As it is I gotta do a see/saw back an forth getting the big thing pointed back the way I came.

That's part of the road test in NY State. Actually, figure 8s in that same space. Easy-peasy on my 11E.

[rphillips]

Forr me, U-turns on a two lane was a lot like using a center stand... Pain in the butt if you don't know how, easy-peasy after you get em' figured out.

[Suzukian]

The counter steer, post 15 says have seen people taking turns at full speed while leaning the bike the wrong way. I can't imagine how that can happen. counter steer to right bike leans to left. the bike won't go around a curve full speed leaning the wrong way... Remember what HI-siding is.... Just my opinion.

You're right, I wrote that wrong. What I meant is when people counter steer into a turn, but lean the opposite direction. I knew 2 people who rode this way, one on a BMW and another on a fully faired XS1100. They would counter steer correctly, but either stay vertical, or lean slightly the opposite direction, they never leaned with the bike. When I read what I wrote after reading you post, I realized I didn't word it right. Thanks.

[Rob S.]

You're right, I wrote that wrong. What I meant is when people counter steer into a turn, but lean the opposite direction. I knew 2 people who rode this way, one on a BMW and another on a fully faired XS1100. They would counter steer correctly, but either stay vertical, or lean slightly the opposite direction, they never leaned with the bike. When I read what I wrote after reading you post, I realized I didn't word it right. Thanks.

Well, you've got me confused. "Counter steer correctly"?!? Isn't it something that just happens automatically (or naturally) anytime you lean into a turn? I've never thought, "Oh, I need more counter steer now."

And isn't counter steering, by it's very name, the fact that the handlebars (and the front wheel) are turned ever so slightly right, when you and the bike are leaning left through a left curve? Don't we all do this naturally any time the bike is not completely upright?

And if we don't 'do' this, don't we fall?

"Counter steer INTO a turn"?!? Isn't that an oxymoron?

You're lucky the Grammar Gestapo aren't open this late, 'cause I'm just the type to inform on a fellow rider.

[JMHJ]

It just happens naturally, you don't "use it" intentionally.

I said I usually don't think about it, but if I was telling the whole truth, I'd add that I have noticed something of how definite I have to be with it on the heavy ZX-11 when making highway speed lane changes that are (not exactly leisurely). You've got to put in a little effort to make that thing do what you want. And I didn't want to admit to thinking about it in reverse occasionally too (pull on the right bar to go left, pull on the left bar to go right...). Figured that would just confuse the matter.

[Suzukian]

Well, you've got me confused. "Counter steer correctly"?!? Isn't it something that just happens automatically (or naturally) anytime you lean into a turn? I've never thought, "Oh, I need more counter steer now."

And isn't counter steering, by it's very name, the fact that the handlebars (and the front wheel) are turned ever so slightly right, when you and the bike are leaning left through a left curve? Don't we all do this naturally any time the bike is not completely upright?

And if we don't 'do' this, don't we fall?

"Counter steer INTO a turn"?!? Isn't that an oxymoron?

You're lucky the Grammar Gestapo aren't open this late, 'cause I'm just the type to inform on a fellow rider.

Yes, you're right, these two people I knew would counter steer correctly, but instead of leaning with the top, the sat on top of it. It is something I have seen some people do and can't figure out why. My Brother in law noticed it about this one day about one of the people we both knew, and he commented on it. I thought I was imaging it, I was happy he noticed it too.

Why lean the bike over, but keep your body straight up and not lean with the bike. Very strange. Counter steering comes natural once you learn how to ride. It becomes refined as time goes on. If you can''t learn it, you had better get a side car of a trike. I guess no one here has seen anyone do this, and I'm glad for you, even happier no one here does it.

[dpep]

First thing I tell a first-time on a motorcycle passenger to do when the bike is leaning over: NOTHING.

[rphillips]

I've had to tell a few first time passengers, like my mother and mother-in-law, to not try to straighten us up when leaning around a curve. When they learned we weren't going to turn over, they did fine..... Wondering how many folks had no clue they were counter steering, till somebody told them? I'd bet, except for folks that took a motorcycle riding class before learning, there are a bunch of us.

[Suzukian]

If you learned how to ride a bicycle, then you would know about counter steering. I've never met anyone who rides a bike that doesn't know this concept. They may not be able to explain gyroscopic precession, but they know what counter steering means. I haven't mean the others who don't as they are probably no longer with us.

[JMHJ]

Here's how I remember the training (probably have the book in the closet):

Sit straight up and let the bike lean under you for a slow speed maneuvering turn (like when the handlebars are actually turned the way you're turning), and Lean with the bike in the other ones (like when countersteering is happening, prob).

Can't remember for sure what it is for swerving, but I'm pretty sure it's move the bike only (don't try to lean with it - happens too fast). That's about what happens naturally when I'm trying to miss a flaw in the road that's almost upon me.

[Suzukian]

You counter steer to get the bike over, once there, very light left to right motions adjust your position in the lean, at that point, left is left, right is right, but if you pull on the left handlebar, and pull on the right, you'll stand right up. You can see it in MotoGP, where the just ride the bike, leaned all the way over, everything scraping and the front tire wipe out for either going a bit to hard to the left, or right, which ever causes him to go over the edge of the grip. The pic below is a perfect example where the rider in 2nd place is turning his handlebar slightly to the(his) left to go through the left hand turn. You can see it in the 3rd place position too. The first position is almost not viewable from his angle.

motogp-november-03.jpg