How Many Practice?

[Rob S.]

Same here. In 2015 I enrolled in a course because it is the easiest way to take the motorcycle road test. (I passed my first M.C. road test in 1975). The instructor asked me if I wanted to join in with all the other students piddling back and forth on a dead end street on identical 'step through' scooters. No thanks.

On road test day, I stood out a tad on my 11EZ as everyone else used the scooters the company provided. The test was no problem, and I think I use the same technique you do for slow speed u turns. I drag the rear brake as I maneuver through u turns and figure 8s with throttle and clutch.

[Baatfam]

I guess some of those courses work for some people, and maybe some need them. I went to one to observe, and the guy asked me to do some slow turning stuff. Afterwards, he asked me if I would be willing to volunteer time at the classes. I said "No Thanks", I didn't want that responsibility. If you spend 20 years riding, I doubt you have been making any mistakes of consequence, or you'd be dead. Unless you live somewhere that is a straight road, and you live at one end, and you life is at the other end. The biggest mistake I see people make is not use their rear brake when slowing to a stop at intersections, or Red Lights, Stops signs, etc. You see their handlebars wobbling left to right, not knowing if they just dragged their rear brake a little, the bike straightens right up. Slow speeds only, combination otherwise, and mostly the front brake. The method I've seen on YouTube, where the guy lays his bike almost over the opposite direction of the U-Turn he is making makes me shudder. I can imagine someone just dropping their bike. Rear brake, clutch and throttle, slow speed U-Turns on a dime. That works for me, I've seen people take turns at full speed leaning the bike the wrong way, and leaning over really weird like. Hard to explain, but you'll know it when you see it.

Hmmm...But still....
All things being equal, experience, age, natural talent, etc., the rider who actively pursues advance individual training will be the better rider. Taking any advance riding courses, riding schools, track days, or even watching training videos or reading training books, gives one an advantage over the just "experienced." This applies to any sport or discipline....

[trent]

I camped out at state fair grounds few years back and it just so happens right across the street was the place they gave motorcycle riding classes.

most were new riders, and if you pass the class you didn't have to do the riding part when you get your license.

I'd say about thirty students, four or five looked like they had some riding experience, but most looked like they never been on one....no joke.

First night Friday night, it looked like all class room stuff from around six until nine.

Saturday morning also, but then they brought bikes out...looked like suzuki 250's

It was scary, they did cones, lot of one on instructions while others waited.

By Sunday afternoon it looked like two different groups of people, they were riding around and doing very well....I'd say the two instructors were miracle workers...not even kidding.

[zuluwiz]

I used to go out in empty parking lots and practice just grabbing the front brake, trying to make it a reflex, not something i had to think about, then do. It might have saved my life in 86 when i had my big wreck. Was doing about 50 when the old fool in the Chrysler pulled out i front of me. Maybe i got slowed down enough to not get killed in the crash, i dont remember the crash but there were skid marks leading up to the crash site (still spent a long time in the hospital, but i lived. )

I'm not seeing anyone talking about countersteering............

[JMHJ]

I'm not seeing anyone talking about countersteering............

Doing it w/o thinking about it usually. That was a bit of mystery to me before I started and was reading through the permit test material. It gives me just the slightest hint of how those days felt, thinking about it.

[storm 64]

I agree with Bob.
To be that conceded to think you don't need educated because you already know it all is just foolish...

By the way, our GSR friend Nick lenatsch is putting on a riding school during the Moto-America race at Pitt Race, my back yard. I missed it last year. I want to go this year.
It's a little pricey, but I'm sure it's worth it.
I bet he'd remember me. Remember I made him them cool 1" rear shock extenders?

[Suzukian]

I have no doubt that some people can benefit from this type of education. When I was learning to fly airplanes, I solo'd in 18 hours. After that, I was on my own. I would go up with my instructor every 5 hours of so for a check ride, going to further and further airports, demonstrating my navigation skills, and to satisfy the FAA rules, but you learned how to fly by flying. When you finally get your license, it doesn't mean you know how to fly, it just means you can keep on learning over further distances.

I have over 300K miles on motorcycles. Working for 4 different dealerships, and fortunately, always having a dealer supplied motorcycle meant I never had to wrack up miles on my motorcycles. We used to hold small classes, teaching people how to use the clutch,very basic stuff, and referred them to a school, as they usually picked up their bike with their permit. Most people who purchased a bike from us already had a license. No matter what you did, you still had to take the state test.

I would never put anyone down for taking such classes, but I know of a few people who went to race tracks on open days and ended up tossing their motorcycles. Some got real hurt, some just got scrapes, but very few I know of said they ever got anything out of it. I think if you feel you need to do things to improve your skills, then do them.

Your front tire should never lock up when you brake, that makes you slide, and you lose all braking ability. If you want to practice hard front braking, do so, but if you tire locks up, then know you are braking too hard, and it will not prevent you from hitting anything. At the most, you may learn where your bike has it's most effective brake distance, but never lock up your wheels.

As far as counter steering, that is why motorcycles lean, gyroscopic precession is what causes this, but when you are leaned over, you are adjusting your steering and leaned over, left is left, and right is right, you counter steer to toss your bike over to the other side, or stand it up, it is gyroscopic precession that causes this. This is what you are doing, all of us, otherwise we could not take a turn, not even on a bicycle.

In short, there is no teacher like actually going out there and riding. You keep your head on a swivel, and trust no one. I don't ride in groups, almost always ride alone, or one other person. I have driven on groups, going to races, but stopped doing that as too many people in these groups had bad habits, riding side by side, in one lane, far to close to each other. I have seen half a group of riders go down because on one or two people not paying attention and turning into each other, getting locked up, and going down.

If you decide to race, and there is a school for that i your area, you be a fool not to sign up.
There are no classes in my area for motorcycle education. i haven't seen anything like that since the '70's.
I guess people are to scared of litigation.

[zuluwiz]

The odd thing I have found about countersteering is: half the riders i've met over the years absolutely deny that there is any such thing. Even tho they use it everyday. Splain that, Lucy!

[Baatfam]

I have no doubt that some people can benefit from this type of education. When I was learning to fly airplanes, I solo'd in 18 hours. After that, I was on my own. I would go up with my instructor every 5 hours of so for a check ride, going to further and further airports, demonstrating my navigation skills, and to satisfy the FAA rules, but you learned how to fly by flying. When you finally get your license, it doesn't mean you know how to fly, it just means you can keep on learning over further distances.

I have over 300K miles on motorcycles. Working for 4 different dealerships, and fortunately, always having a dealer supplied motorcycle meant I never had to wrack up miles on my motorcycles. We used to hold small classes, teaching people how to use the clutch,very basic stuff, and referred them to a school, as they usually picked up their bike with their permit. Most people who purchased a bike from us already had a license. No matter what you did, you still had to take the state test.

I would never put anyone down for taking such classes, but I know of a few people who went to race tracks on open days and ended up tossing their motorcycles. Some got real hurt, some just got scrapes, but very few I know of said they ever got anything out of it. I think if you feel you need to do things to improve your skills, then do them.

Your front tire should never lock up when you brake, that makes you slide, and you lose all braking ability. If you want to practice hard front braking, do so, but if you tire locks up, then know you are braking too hard, and it will not prevent you from hitting anything. At the most, you may learn where your bike has it's most effective brake distance, but never lock up your wheels.

As far as counter steering, that is why motorcycles lean, gyroscopic precession is what causes this, but when you are leaned over, you are adjusting your steering and leaned over, left is left, and right is right, you counter steer to toss your bike over to the other side, or stand it up, it is gyroscopic precession that causes this. This is what you are doing, all of us, otherwise we could not take a turn, not even on a bicycle.

In short, there is no teacher like actually going out there and riding. You keep your head on a swivel, and trust no one. I don't ride in groups, almost always ride alone, or one other person. I have driven on groups, going to races, but stopped doing that as too many people in these groups had bad habits, riding side by side, in one lane, far to close to each other. I have seen half a group of riders go down because on one or two people not paying attention and turning into each other, getting locked up, and going down.

If you decide to race, and there is a school for that i your area, you be a fool not to sign up.
There are no classes in my area for motorcycle education. i haven't seen anything like that since the '70's.
I guess people are to scared of litigation.

Yah but.....

I stand by me original statement. Everyone can benefit from additional training, and it is foolish to think otherwise.

And there are training opportunities everywhere....Even in Connecticut...

[storm 64]

Bob, I think you're missing his point.

When you are at such a high level of expertise, you don't need any training.
It's like teaching Gary Kasparov how to play chess.
Teaching Jimmy Page how to play the guitar
'kian how to ride a motorcycle....
300,000 miles, I'll never be that good at riding motorcycles.

[ptegsotic]

Bob, I think you're missing his point.

When you are at such a high level of expertise, you don't need any training.
It's like teaching Gary Kasparov how to play chess.
Teaching Jimmy Page how to play the guitar
'kian how to ride a motorcycle....
300,000 miles, I'll never be that good at riding motorcycles.

it really is getting old

[1978GS750E]

Bob, I think you're missing his point.

When you are at such a high level of expertise, you don't need any training.
It's like teaching Gary Kasparov how to play chess.
Teaching Jimmy Page how to play the guitar
'kian how to ride a motorcycle....
300,000 miles, I'll never be that good at riding motorcycles.

Maybe we are in the presence of greatness.............and don't even realize it! (I'm sure we will be enlightened!)

[Rob S.]

The odd thing I have found about countersteering is: half the riders i've met over the years absolutely deny that there is any such thing. Even tho they use it everyday. Splain that, Lucy!

It just happens naturally, you don't "use it" intentionally.

[Suzukian]

Yah but.....

I stand by me original statement. Everyone can benefit from additional training, and it is foolish to think otherwise.

And there are training opportunities everywhere....Even in Connecticut...

It's rude to call someone a fool, hiding your insult by inferring it. You can have a difference of opinion without insulting anyone. I learn every time I go out for a ride. I have roads I know of that have not changed in 35 years, and have no stop signs or side roads for 8 miles. They are loaded with sharp turns,elevation changes, and there's always a new line to discover. Just riding your bike is a constant learning experience . I don't think you're foolish for having your opinions, but that's all they are, just like that orifice you have, the same one that everyone else has
. Pants.gif

[rphillips]

The counter steer, post 15 says have seen people taking turns at full speed while leaning the bike the wrong way. I can't imagine how that can happen. counter steer to right bike leans to left. the bike won't go around a curve full speed leaning the wrong way... Remember what HI-siding is.... Just my opinion.