Honda/Nissan/(Mitsubishi) merger

[GS1150Pilot]

That article kind'f explains how and why Nissan is struggling, didn't say much how and why Toyota is going the opposite direction.

I linked an article on Toyota to start the thread. Here is another.

Toyota targets more hydrogen vehicles than solid-state EVs by 2030

[Nessism]

I linked an article on Toyota to start the thread. Here is another.

Toyota targets more hydrogen vehicles than solid-state EVs by 2030

There are two hydrogen refueling stations inside 4 miles of my home. And I live in So. Calif, where population density is high.

I'm a big supporter, but it would majorly suck to have to deal with driving so far just to fill up. Unfortunately, it's the chicken vs. egg situation; hydrogen filling stations won't be built until there are more users, and since there are few stations, people don't want to buy the cars.

[Cipher]

That article kind'f explains how and why Nissan is struggling, didn't say much how and why Toyota is going the opposite direction.

Did Ghoson's loss impact this? Nawwwwww.

[GS1150Pilot]

There are two hydrogen refueling stations inside 4 miles of my home. And I live in So. Calif, where population density is high.

I'm a big supporter, but it would majorly suck to have to deal with driving so far just to fill up. Unfortunately, it's the chicken vs. egg situation; hydrogen filling stations won't be built until there are more users, and since there are few stations, people don't want to buy the cars.

I've been following Toyota's involvement in this arena for some time. I'm not a huge fan of the "soullessness" of electric motors and have some hope that hydrogen IC motors may be a way forward that is both environmentally sound and aesthetically pleasing to drivers/riders.

[Cipher]

I've been following Toyota's involvement in this arena for some time. I'm not a huge fan of the "soullessness" of electric motors and have some hope that hydrogen IC motors may be a way forward that is both environmentally sound and aesthetically pleasing to drivers/riders.

Hydrogen will never be viable.

[Redman]

Datsun, Probably few here remember them. . . . . . .

1976 B-210, wife bought new. And had the dealer rust proofing.

1978 hood rusting. Went to the deler and they just told me to take one. They had a stack of them.

By 1985, one of the valve seats came loose, got busted up, bashed up that piston and the next. But could still see hone marks in cylinder walls. (replaced engine with one from salvage yard, they had a few to choose from).
By about 1988, the frame work rusted out to the point that the front shock was denting the hood.
THen a drunken me, slid sideways into a curb and busted up the frame work even more, so it all went to the same salvage yard.
.

[oldGSfan]

What happened to Nissan? Back in the 80's and 90's Nissan and Toyota were pretty well thought of as equal. It seems for the past 20 yrs. Toyota has been moving up and getting more and more popular and sought after while Nissan has been kind'f declining and backing up.... Has this happened everywhere, or is it just in my area?

I think Renault happened to some degree. I can't think of many good vehicles that came out after that merger. They seemed to get flimsy, ugly, and cheap. My dad got a '72 Datsun pickup, if not new, nearly so. Cool little truck and just in time for the gas crisis, but come to think of it, it was flimsy. The metal was paper thin and it rusted out while you looked at it, and seemed to blow mufflers every month - though that was probably was also rust-related. I never considered Nissan and Toyota equal after driving many through the 70s and 80s - the Toyotas were much more solid throughout. But sort of tractor like (my '72 Corona with the indestructible 18-RC for example). Datsuns seemed to like to rev more and had a lighter feel, but didnt' last like a Toyota. that's my recollection anyway. But Datsun had the 240Z and that 6

[Nessism]

Renault didn't kill Nissan. Nissan, killed Nissan.

I worked for the US Nissan HQ, in their Engineering/Quality department, from 1985 to 2006. First year I was there, Nissan outsold Toyota. Then, it was a slow decline ever since.

Year after year, when the new models were announced, it was a huge letdown. For the most part, Nissan's engineers made good cars, but the product planners, and styling "designers" missed the mark, again and again.

Then, the Japanese management got the company in debt. Renault bought controlling interest, for a pittance, and put Carlos Ghosn in charge. Ghosn saved the company; he eradicated debt in record time, and Nissan was a shining star in the auto industry, making billions each year.

About this time, Ghosn move the US HQ from California to Nashville. That's when I left the company. And that's when Nissan lost their mojo in the US.

A decision was made to go all in on CVT transmissions. Nissan was a leader in CVT's, which many other auto companies followed, however, the hardware was not ready, and a decade+ long reliability slide hurt the company's reputation in a huge way.

While this was all happening, Ghosn didn't like electric. He was pushing hydrogen. In the end, Nissan missed the entire hybrid rise. They bought power trains from Toyota, for the Altima hybrid, more than 15 years ago now, but Nissan never developed their own.

Bottom line, Nissan got lazy, complacent, didn't keep up with technical advances, and the CVT's killed their reputation for good quality (in the NA market).

[GS1150Pilot]

Renault didn't kill Nissan. Nissan, killed Nissan.

I worked for the US Nissan HQ, in their Engineering/Quality department, from 1985 to 2006. First year I was there, Nissan outsold Toyota. Then, it was a slow decline ever since.

Year after year, when the new models were announced, it was a huge letdown. For the most part, Nissan's engineers made good cars, but the product planners, and styling "designers" missed the mark, again and again.

Then, the Japanese management got the company in debt. Renault bought controlling interest, for a pittance, and put Carlos Ghosn in charge. Ghosn saved the company; he eradicated debt in record time, and Nissan was a shining star in the auto industry, making billions each year.

About this time, Ghosn move the US HQ from California to Nashville. That's when I left the company. And that's when Nissan lost their mojo in the US.

A decision was made to go all in on CVT transmissions. Nissan was a leader in CVT's, which many other auto companies followed, however, the hardware was not ready, and a decade+ long reliability slide hurt the company's reputation in a huge way.

While this was all happening, Ghosn didn't like electric. He was pushing hydrogen. In the end, Nissan missed the entire hybrid rise. They bought power trains from Toyota, for the Altima hybrid, more than 15 years ago now, but Nissan never developed their own.

Bottom line, Nissan got lazy, complacent, didn't keep up with technical advances, and the CVT's killed their reputation for good quality (in the NA market).

CVTs fail on Sentras and Rogues with startling frequency. The fact that they deaden the driving experience may not matter much to drivers of such vehicles, but the lack of longevity was clear years ago. Definitely shame on Nissan for cheaping out there.

[Nessism]

CVTs fail on Sentras and Rogues with startling frequency. The fact that they deaden the driving experience may not matter much to drivers of such vehicles, but the lack of longevity was clear years ago. Definitely shame on Nissan for cheaping out there.

CVT is not about being cheap. They have a wider gear ratio spread than a geared transmission, and they can be electronically tuned, to keep the engine at the torque peak at all times. They are a brilliant idea, in concept. My Civic has a CVT and it's the least of my cars concerns.

Near the end of my carreer with Nissan, several old Nissan folk, who had moved over to the transmission affiliate, Jatco, were calling me, trying to get me to join. They knew Nissan was going all in on CVT, and they needed field service engineers to get ready. Thank god my (ex) wife said no, to another physical move. Living those years of mass failures wouldn't have been fun.

[oldGSfan]

CVT is not about being cheap. They have a wider gear ratio spread than a geared transmission, and they can be electronically tuned, to keep the engine at the torque peak at all times. They are a brilliant idea, in concept. My Civic has a CVT and it's the least of my cars concerns.

Near the end of my carreer with Nissan, several old Nissan folk, who had moved over to the transmission affiliate, Jatco, were calling me, trying to get me to join. They knew Nissan was going all in on CVT, and they needed field service engineers to get ready. Thank god my (ex) wife said no, to another physical move. Living those years of mass failures wouldn't have been fun.

Like I said, to some degree. But just anecdotal and you have inside perspective. I think they got ugly. But wait, A B210 wasn't all that pretty either. And look what they did during the lifespan of the 240Z. I guess it was the 80s but that 300ZX was abysmal compared to the purity of the 240/60/80.

[rphillips]

I live appx. 20 mi. from the Nissan Plant so had several friends that worked there. most of them took advantage of their employee lease plan, it covered all maintenance and insurance, so many tried the 300ZX Turbo for a reasonable price. All laughed at what a joke they were for a sports car.

[Baatfam]

Hydrogen will never be viable.

Totally agree....

[GS1150Pilot]

CVT is not about being cheap. They have a wider gear ratio spread than a geared transmission, and they can be electronically tuned, to keep the engine at the torque peak at all times. They are a brilliant idea, in concept. My Civic has a CVT and it's the least of my cars concerns.

Near the end of my carreer with Nissan, several old Nissan folk, who had moved over to the transmission affiliate, Jatco, were calling me, trying to get me to join. They knew Nissan was going all in on CVT, and they needed field service engineers to get ready. Thank god my (ex) wife said no, to another physical move. Living those years of mass failures wouldn't have been fun.

That being said, CVTs ARE cheaper to manufacture and are about as exciting to drive as a lawn mower. I do not believe that Nissan went down the CVT road to enhance the driver experience so much as to angle vehicles toward drivers who do not love the feel of gears but who love fuel economy-and to cut costs.

[GS1150Pilot]

Totally agree....

Toyota probably knows better than we do.