The Oxy Kingpins

[trevor]

Please don't defend me Scott to the likes of Trevor. He's an abrasive individual, proven out countless times here.

Yeah...I'm the one that's abrasive....now that's rich. Lol

"As far as I'm concerned, nobody forced the consumers to open their mouth...." Ed

[RustyTank]

As far as I'm concerned, nobody forced the consumers to open their mouth and shove pills down it. Of course, the lawyers go after the deep pockets, to line their own.

I'm not interested in being on the ignore list Ed, I'm just askin a question, always lookin for honest open, calm discourse...the calm part can sometimes be difficult, I recognize.
Regarding the quote of yours I put in bold, do you feel this way about all people who suffer from addiction or are the feelings you communicated pointed specifically toward patients that became addicted to opioids?

[Nessism]

I'm not interested in being on the ignore list Ed, I'm just askin a question, always lookin for honest open, calm discourse...the calm part can sometimes be difficult, I recognize.
Regarding the quote of yours I put in bold, do you feel this way about all people who suffer from addiction or are the feelings you communicated pointed specifically toward patients that became addicted to opioids?

To me Rusty it's just like alcohol.

[RustyTank]

To me Rusty it's just like alcohol.

Do you mind being a little more specific with me Ed?
I don't quite understand your answer.

When you say "it's just like alcohol", do you mean that no one is forcing booze down people's throats? Specifically people who may be considered alcoholics?

Again, I'm just trying to understand your perspective here.

[bccap]

Do you mind being a little more specific with me Ed?
I don't quite understand your answer.

When you say "it's just like alcohol", do you mean that no one is forcing booze down people's throats? Specifically people who may be considered alcoholics?

Again, I'm just trying to understand your perspective here.

When dealing with right wing extremist wing nuts I find it more more fun just to have a little fun with them ......

[timebombprod]

i dont think anybody wants to purposefully be addicted to opioids....and nobody literally forced them to shove them down their throat but a doctor did prescribe them, unfortunately that prescription turns out to be addictive.

the response "to me its just like alchohol" really doesnt explain anything, a doctor doesn't prescribe somebody to drink. this is a prescription drug being talked about.

[RustyTank]

i dont think anybody wants to purposefully be addicted to opioids....and nobody literally forced them to shove them down their throat but a doctor did prescribe them, unfortunately that prescription turns out to be addictive.

the response "to me its just like alchohol" really doesnt explain anything, a doctor doesn't prescribe somebody to drink. this is a prescription drug being talked about.

Yea, yeah, I'm not trying to pounce on Ed. I'm just trying to understand his position. I thought his comment was interesting that's all.

[Nessism]

Do you mind being a little more specific with me Ed?
I don't quite understand your answer.

When you say "it's just like alcohol", do you mean that no one is forcing booze down people's throats? Specifically people who may be considered alcoholics?

Again, I'm just trying to understand your perspective here.

Hi Rusty,

I do not believe the opoid problem blame falls on one entity; there is shared responsibility all through the chain.

Pill makers didn't care where they went. There were doctors that were nothing but pushers, distributing pills like jelly beans. And the end users of course were slamming them down. It irritates me when some make it out like the users were victims. Maybe so to some extent, but not to the point many claim (in my view.) It's like blaming cigarette companies for people smoking for 30 years and dieing of lung cancer. Or blaming gun companies when someone murders someone with a gun.

Regarding alcohol, it's an addictive drug that's sold everywhere. Nobody forces people to drink the stuff, but they do. Drunk driving is a top killer, not to mention some people drink themselves to death. Alcohol is accepted though, so there you have it.

[argonsagas]

Hi Rusty,

I do not believe the opoid problem blame falls on one entity; there is shared responsibility all through the chain.

Pill makers didn't care where they went. There were doctors that were nothing but pushers, distributing pills like jelly beans. And the end users of course were slamming them down. It irritates me when some make it out like the users were victims. Maybe so to some extent, but not to the point many claim (in my view.) It's like blaming cigarette companies for people smoking for 30 years and dieing of lung cancer. Or blaming gun companies when someone murders someone with a gun.

Regarding alcohol, it's an addictive drug that's sold everywhere. Nobody forces people to drink the stuff, but they do. Drunk driving is a top killer, not to mention some people drink themselves to death. Alcohol is accepted though, so there you have it.

The problem with the opioids is that the manufacturers/distributors knew from the outset that what they were making and pushing was addictive, but they lied to those who were very, very, hard pushed to prescribe them.They initially denied the addictive tendencies of the drugs, despite having clear knowledge of what they were doing.
]
Later on, doctors themselves became significant parts of the problem as they willingly gave out 'scripts to anyone/everyone who asked, and did so in previously unimaginable numbers...like millions of pills in a town of 5000 population.

As the addictions grew so did the demand, and that drove incessant increases in supply, coupled with pressure on doctors to prescribe more, and still more. Many did that.
The entire aim and directive at the manufacturer and distributor levels was to make profits rise and rise....and rise and rise....

[argonsagas]

Hi Rusty,

I do not believe the opoid problem blame falls on one entity; there is shared responsibility all through the chain.

Pill makers didn't care where they went. There were doctors that were nothing but pushers, distributing pills like jelly beans. And the end users of course were slamming them down. It irritates me when some make it out like the users were victims. Maybe so to some extent, but not to the point many claim (in my view.) It's like blaming cigarette companies for people smoking for 30 years and dieing of lung cancer. Or blaming gun companies when someone murders someone with a gun.

Regarding alcohol, it's an addictive drug that's sold everywhere.
Nobody forces people to drink the stuff, but they do.
Drunk driving is a top killer, not to mention some people drink themselves to death.
Alcohol is accepted though, so there you have it.

Today, we have legalized marijuana, which does the same things, and which gets wildly denied by a huge number of supporters.


You are correct in saying the "consumer" is at fault, however, as, ultimately, that is an inevitable truth. How they got started is second to them not stopping

It is far from politically correct to say it bluntly, but it is reality that ultimate responsibility for stopping consumption of anything from peanut butter to hard drugs is in the hands of the individual, as no one else can stop anyone from consuming whatever it is that is killing them.
Denial is the broken bridge that far too often, even usually, keeps them from going back.

FWIW, this is a truth that I have to live with, right now.

[Nessism]

The problem with the opioids is that the manufacturers/distributors knew from the outset that what they were making and pushing was addictive, but they lied to those who were very, very, hard pushed to prescribe them.They initially denied the addictive tendencies of the drugs, despite having clear knowledge of what they were doing.
]
Later on, doctors themselves became significant parts of the problem as they willingly gave out 'scripts to anyone/everyone who asked, and did so in previously unimaginable numbers...like millions of pills in a town of 5000 population.

As the addictions grew so did the demand, and that drove incessant increases in supply, coupled with pressure on doctors to prescribe more, and still more. Many did that.
The entire aim and directive at the manufacturer and distributor levels was to make profits rise and rise....and rise and rise....

I read the story about that town in Kentucky (or somewhere near) where the pills were flowing like water. That's an abominationtion though and should not be used to judge the entire situation.

And everyone knew from the start that opoids are addictive. I'm not buying that it was a hidden secret.

[storm 64]

Just yesterday I was In federal court as a prospective juror. The guy on trial was arrested for possession of fentanol with intent to sell and a loaded gun in his car. It seemed like it would be a open and closed case. But what puzzled me was, how did this case go so far in the federal court system? Maybe the guy was just at the wrong place at the wrong time? Unfortunately I was not chosen for a juror... I guess I was to honest. When asked if I knew anyone who did drugs, I said yes. Who doesn't know someone that does/did drugs. John Bullushi, Richard Pryor, the burnout in high school... Well apparently they were talking about friends, family... Then they asked me about drugs in general. I said I don't know to much about the hard drugs such as fentanol, but I do know alcohol is more dangerous than Marijuana and alcohol is legal. I guess that comment got me kicked off the jury. That's a shame, I was really looking forward to hearing the guys story. It was a long day, but very interesting.

[Rob S.]

The first two 'safe injection' sites just opened in Manhattan. Where exactly? Harlem and 'Spanish' Harlem. I think they might be the only 'legal' sites in the U.S., though technically they're illegal federally.

Talk about 'full service' - they supply stems for smoking crack and pipes for smoking meth, in addition to fresh needles, cookers and tourniquets. When the aides start working topless, I'll get slightly suspicious.

They're reporting that they've saved four lives already.

[RustyTank]

The first two 'safe injection' sites just opened in Manhattan. Where exactly? Harlem and 'Spanish' Harlem. I think they might be the only 'legal' sites in the U.S., though technically they're illegal federally.

Talk about 'full service' - they supply stems for smoking crack and pipes for smoking meth, in addition to fresh needles, cookers and tourniquets. When the aides start working topless, I'll get slightly suspicious.

They're reporting that they've saved four lives already.

And what do you think about this Rob? I appreciate your topless joke, but seeing as it's in your backyard, so to speak, where do you stand on the whole 'safe injection' site idea?
Personally, I think it's good to try new things in order to help. And sure as sh** there's evidence to back up that it's been successful in other parts of the world. But, nobody wants that kind of thing in their backyard.

[argonsagas]

I read the story about that town in Kentucky (or somewhere near) where the pills were flowing like water. That's an obomination though and should not be used to judge the entire situation.

And everyone knew from the start that opoids are addictive. I'm not buying that it was a hidden secret.

Sometimes spelling errors can make things interesting.

That one could be taken as Obamaination, (which is what made me chuckle) Abomination, or perhaps Aberration was intended.

I really cannot say about Obama.
It was certainly an abomination, however it was not really an aberration as it was not only far from unique, massive sales numbers happened, often in relatively low population areas, all across the country.