The Oxy Kingpins

[RustyTank]

If you want to help with this global problem you can start by not judging people.

Thanks for highlighting the stigma associated with addiction.

[trevor]

Ed, I'm not sure you'll see this but, I appreciate you explaining your opinion a little more in depth.

Needless to say no one here gives a hoot what I think or what have to say but I figure at the end of the day we're just a handful of people just shootin the sh** right? So here goes. I've been ruminating on the topic of this thread for the last couple days. Thought it better for me to sit back and think rather than stick my foot in my mouth, something I've gotten pretty good at over the years. For better or worse I find myself becoming less and less reactionary the older I get. Anywho...I have an enormous amount of empathy for people suffering from substance use addiction. Chalk it up to personal life experience. At the risk of virtue signaling, I've recently decided to go back to school, specifically to work in social and human services. My hope is to eventually have the opportunity to work for an organization to help, in some capacity, people in crisis…local homeless communities, people suffering from substance use issues, mental health issues, etc. I say all that to emphasize my perspective.

In response to your opinion Ed, I appreciate where you're coming from, and I can understand your want to spread the blame. My takeaway from your post is that no one is innocent, so to speak, in regard to such an enormous calamity. Your comments on substance use/abuse in general seem to focus heavily on accountability. With accountability being so important in addiction recovery I appreciate your focus on it. The topic of addiction is a sensitive one. So many are touched by it personally, often tragically. Your original statement, “As far as I'm concerned, nobody forced the consumers to open their mouth and shove pills down it” was rather blunt and harsh, but I think it’s important to recognize it’s not your job to be sensitive about it. You have every right to state your opinion as bluntly as you’d like. It’s your opinion for God sakes, lol, and I’ll continually defend your right to express it. That said though, I can relate to Trevor’s reaction. I just have a different approach. Ed, the last thing I’ll say is, I don’t know what ya know and what ya don’t regarding opioid addiction. I could sit here and type up all sorts of info about how opioids effect the release of dopamine receptors in the brain and yada yada yada, but it’s not my job to educate you. Instead, I’ll post a couple links to some very short videos explaining it all. One vid is four minutes, and one is eight mins. I leave it up to you. I think it's important for me to remember that not everyone is on the same page I am regarding this topic. When we surround ourselves with likeminded people it's easy to forget that.

As far as what I think about the opioid crisis and its inception…boy oh boy did the folks who listened to their doctors get a raw deal. A fu**in raw, raw deal. The clean up on isle 10 is gonna take years.

Trevor, I’m interested in learning more about your sober houses, maybe I’ll message you if ya don’t mind. We can have a chat.

Of course! Feel free to message me.

[metalfab]

This subject hits home for me. I went through several surgery's in the fairly recent past from my right leg being crushed. I was on Fentanyl for almost a week after the first two surgeries while in the hospital, then I was switched to Morphine. I was sent home with about 120 Oxycontin. When I ran out of those they gave me Norco 10/325. I went through this over and over. Then when it was time to learn to walk again more Oxycontin. At the end of all of this after about 6 months I was a junkie, and I knew it. The strong meds served their purpose, I cant imagine having to go through this without them.

I knew it was time to manup, with 40 oxys left and several norco's still in the bottle I stopped taking them. I got the shakes, abdominal cramps, liquid poo, and I was sweating more than I can describe. Very bad deal, to get back to normality it was the only road. There is a real need for those strong meds, and there are people suffering because drug addicts have screwed the system up bad. People who are screw ups screw things up for normal people, that is an axiomatic truth.

The addicts and the frail minds act like victims. The real victims are those in dire pain who cant get pain meds. Just like your fork wont make you fan, the mere existence of a drug doesn't create addicts. You can't outrun yourself.

[Cipher]

This subject hits home for me. I went through several surgery's in the fairly recent past from my right leg being crushed. I was on Fentanyl for almost a week after the first two surgeries while in the hospital, then I was switched to Morphine. I was sent home with about 120 Oxycontin. When I ran out of those they gave me Norco 10/325. I went through this over and over. Then when it was time to learn to walk again more Oxycontin. At the end of all of this after about 6 months I was a junkie, and I knew it. The strong meds served their purpose, I cant imagine having to go through this without them.

I knew it was time to manup, with 40 oxys left and several norco's still in the bottle I stopped taking them. I got the shakes, abdominal cramps, liquid poo, and I was sweating more than I can describe. Very bad deal, to get back to normality it was the only road. There is a real need for those strong meds, and there are people suffering because drug addicts have screwed the system up bad. People who are screw ups screw things up for normal people, that is an axiomatic truth.

The addicts and the frail minds act like victims. The real victims are those in dire pain who cant get pain meds. Just like your fork wont make you fan, the mere existence of a drug doesn't create addicts. You can't outrun yourself.

The medical profession and pharmaceutical vendors are the root cause.
Opiods are physically addictive and no dime store self aggrandizing replacement for philosophy alters that.
As for maning up you could have very effectively weaned yourself off
Requires thoughtful discipline not gung ho bs

[Cipher]

Thanks for highlighting the stigma associated with addiction.

And for judgily judging judginess

[trevor]

This subject hits home for me. I went through several surgery's in the fairly recent past from my right leg being crushed. I was on Fentanyl for almost a week after the first two surgeries while in the hospital, then I was switched to Morphine. I was sent home with about 120 Oxycontin. When I ran out of those they gave me Norco 10/325. I went through this over and over. Then when it was time to learn to walk again more Oxycontin. At the end of all of this after about 6 months I was a junkie, and I knew it. The strong meds served their purpose, I cant imagine having to go through this without them.

I knew it was time to manup, with 40 oxys left and several norco's still in the bottle I stopped taking them. I got the shakes, abdominal cramps, liquid poo, and I was sweating more than I can describe. Very bad deal, to get back to normality it was the only road. There is a real need for those strong meds, and there are people suffering because drug addicts have screwed the system up bad. People who are screw ups screw things up for normal people, that is an axiomatic truth.

The addicts and the frail minds act like victims. The real victims are those in dire pain who cant get pain meds. Just like your fork wont make you fan, the mere existence of a drug doesn't create addicts. You can't outrun yourself.

What an ignorant post

[Cipher]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/16/purdue-pharma-settlement-sackler-opioid

[Burque73]

Last October my cousin OD'd on an Oxy/Fentanyl cocktail. His heart stopped and the knuckleheads he was with were too scared to call 911. By the time someone did it was too late.

I worked for his dad 30 years ago as my first job in the trades. His tank service company took us all over the Eastern US. At that time my cousin, Justin, was in Jr High and doing quite well in school. He and his brothers would go on to serve in the Army, then join their dad in the tank service work.

Justin, in his twenties was an incredibly gifted welder. HIs welds easily passed X-ray tests. Didn't matter if it was below Zero outside, blowing snow or rain. Welding inside tanker trucks, ethanol tanks or massive fuel storage takns, this kid was damn good. He eventually became an inspector and was the youngest in his field.

After an injury he was given opioids for the pain and, well, that was that. Within two years his career was done. Marriage was ruined. His circle of friends became other addicts. He picked fights hoping to die, but was such a tough SOB he just got meaner, eventually getting stabbed and almost accomplishing his goal. That hospital stay helped wean him off of opioids since by then it was well known how bad these things are. We really thought he was out of the woods.

His car needed some work done and he remembered one of his old buddies had a shop out in the sticks. We all wish he'd gone somewhere, anywhere else to get work done. While there, his buddy gave him a pill, you know one last high. What he didn't mention is it was the new and improved oxy. That was the last time he'd take any pills.

HIs mom called me in hysteria saying, Roger, Justin's dead! This is hard to write. Man, we miss him.

I hopped on the FJR and went to Sapulpa, OK for his funeral. hIs brother and nephew rode up from Austin. There were lots of bikes at the funeral home the next day. That was cool, but not a fun gathering by any means. One of his dope fiend buddies rode up to the funeral drunk as he!!. His bald head bleeding from a brawl just before he came. My uncle and cousin always carried their sidearms, even to the funeral. As my uncle went over to talk with this guy, he pulled back his coat to expose his holster. He simply just asked the guy to clean up his head before paying his last respects. That was all, no more drama there.

The day after the funeral my cousing, with Justin's daughter riding pillion, and I had an awesone ride through Northeastern OK. We had a massive bonfire and a few beers that evening in honor of Justin.

RIP Justin Duke!


Thaks for letting me share this.

[argonsagas]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...sackler-opioid

THAT is well, very well, worth reading.

Finally, something reasonable coming from USA justice system. Excellent news!

.

[RustyTank]

Last October my cousin OD'd on an Oxy/Fentanyl cocktail. His heart stopped and the knuckleheads he was with were too scared to call 911. By the time someone did it was too late.

I worked for his dad 30 years ago as my first job in the trades. His tank service company took us all over the Eastern US. At that time my cousin, Justin, was in Jr High and doing quite well in school. He and his brothers would go on to serve in the Army, then join their dad in the tank service work.

Justin, in his twenties was an incredibly gifted welder. HIs welds easily passed X-ray tests. Didn't matter if it was below Zero outside, blowing snow or rain. Welding inside tanker trucks, ethanol tanks or massive fuel storage takns, this kid was damn good. He eventually became an inspector and was the youngest in his field.

After an injury he was given opioids for the pain and, well, that was that. Within two years his career was done. Marriage was ruined. His circle of friends became other addicts. He picked fights hoping to die, but was such a tough SOB he just got meaner, eventually getting stabbed and almost accomplishing his goal. That hospital stay helped wean him off of opioids since by then it was well known how bad these things are. We really thought he was out of the woods.

His car needed some work done and he remembered one of his old buddies had a shop out in the sticks. We all wish he'd gone somewhere, anywhere else to get work done. While there, his buddy gave him a pill, you know one last high. What he didn't mention is it was the new and improved oxy. That was the last time he'd take any pills.

HIs mom called me in hysteria saying, Roger, Justin's dead! This is hard to write. Man, we miss him.

I hopped on the FJR and went to Sapulpa, OK for his funeral. hIs brother and nephew rode up from Austin. There were lots of bikes at the funeral home the next day. That was cool, but not a fun gathering by any means. One of his dope fiend buddies rode up to the funeral drunk as he!!. His bald head bleeding from a brawl just before he came. My uncle and cousin always carried their sidearms, even to the funeral. As my uncle went over to talk with this guy, he pulled back his coat to expose his holster. He simply just asked the guy to clean up his head before paying his last respects. That was all, no more drama there.

The day after the funeral my cousing, with Justin's daughter riding pillion, and I had an awesone ride through Northeastern OK. We had a massive bonfire and a few beers that evening in honor of Justin.

RIP Justin Duke!


Thaks for letting me share this.

I appreciate you sharing that story Roger. I'm sorry for your family's loss.

[Burque73]

I appreciate you sharing that story Roger. I'm sorry for your family's loss.

Thank you sir.

I realize that long story had nothing really to do with the topic at hand, and neither did my prior post about my dad. Just wanted to mention how much that oxycontin has affected my family. I'm sure many folks here have relationships that have struggled as a result of this epidemic.

It makes me feel better knowing that the company/ family who spread this medication acrossed the country will likely be held accountable. Good on the museums and other institutions for refusing their money too. Thanks for posting the article from the Gurdian, Cipher.

[trevor]

Real life stories....

I have had so many clients stay in my houses that have had a great life going...wife, kids, house etc....then they got hurt at work....it is devastating to see the fall out that happens to some people.
Right now I have a former NHL hockey player in one of my houses...great guy! As a matter of fact we just made him an assistant manager. I helped him get full time work and he's doing very well. But he got hurt playing hockey...opioids...
Of course not everyone looses their lives and become addicted...but to judge those that do is not helpful.
A few years ago my sister's son was addicted to opioids from a work accident...I got him out here and put him through our treatment centre for free....10 months later he was working in Vancouver and had moved in with a really nice girl. He go hurt at work badly and an ambulance took him to emergency where the doctor didn't ask any addiction questions and gave him opioid pain relief. He got home that night and his girlfriend was upset and took the pills that the doctor gave my nephew and flushed them down the toilet....the same toilet that she would find my nephew dead on a few hours later.
He had snuck out in the night to find more "relief"...
If you want to help with this global problem you can start by not judging people.

[Rob S.]

If you want to help with this global problem you can start by not judging people.

Very well put. By one who knows.

[argonsagas]

If you are interested in know about opioid addiction..Dr Mate is someone I have a great deal of respect for...

https://www.thefix.com/dr-gabor-mate-trauma-underlying-stigma-addiction-interview?utm_content=buffer65cd9&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR0rjrTtbPJsMLdfPqzugMvqn7e_aYVSj12aaN6iaWbda3IkCTwM6Vq6ync

In "BEYOND DRUGS: The Universal Experience of Addiction," you quote trauma pioneer Peter Levine, “Trauma has become so commonplace, that most people don’t even recognize its presence.”
Do you believe that the widespread experience of trauma is behind this current opioid epidemic? Given the warm bubble of pleasure that opioid use brings about where a user barely can be touched by anything outside the addictive cycle, did prescription painkillers and heroin become the easy choice for a wounded generation? Lacking awareness of their trauma and access to treatment options, did opioids become the most straightforward available option to medicate the experience of latent pain?
“Yes,” is the only answer to the first point about opioids. They are pain relievers, and they happen to be the most powerful pain relievers that we have. They not only relieve physical pain; they also relieve emotional pain in the brain. Opiate use always has to do with both physical pain and emotional pain. When you give opioids to people who only need them for physical pain, they don’t become addicted.
The myth that the opioids create the addiction is wrong; it’s the pain that creates the addiction combined with access to the opioids. There are legitimate uses of opioids in the treatment of physical pain. There is no legitimate use in the treatment of emotional pain. The opioid epidemic represents an epidemic of emotional pain that is rooted in the childhood experience of trauma. Such emotional pain is coupled with a troubled society where disconnection, isolation, and increasing amounts of stress have become commonplace. For example, we know that for every percentage point in the increase of the unemployment rate, there is a corresponding increase in opioid use. It’s a question of a very stressed society where people are seeking escape.
Another key factor in the opioid epidemic is the under-education and inadequacy of the medical profession when it comes to learning how to deal with pain. We don’t teach or learn about the complexity of pain. We don’t explain how physical pain is often a result of a combination of both physical and emotional factors. We don’t learn how to speak to people with pain and how to listen to them. We don’t learn about the roots of chronic physical pain and chronic emotional pain that often lies in childhood experience. We don’t learn about non-pharmacological ways of treating pain. Therefore, it’s much easier and much quicker, and it’s an awful lot cheaper just to write an opioid prescription and move on to your next patient. All of these other modalities would take more time. Combined with a troubled society and an epidemic of emotional pain caused by unresolved trauma, such medical inadequacy was nothing less than a recipe for such an epidemic. When you consider all of these factors, the opioid epidemic is not that surprising, but the loss of human life remains tragic and so unnecessary. There are ways to break these cycles.

After reading the highlighted words I wonder about how they play out with the many, many, thousands of people who have become addicted.