With Only A Motorcycle: Fail

[Guest]

Failed my written California Class-M test today :-/ (See link below the pic)


With Only A Motorcycle: Fail

[BigD_83]

You'll get it next time. Must be a pretty big hit to the start of your challenge (caveat- I have not looked into your blog yet, but I assume you are trying to live without a car)

What do the numbers to the right of the answers mean? (is that the number of seconds it took to answer the question, or a page number from a rider's guide?)

Although the diagram looks familiar:

#4 is a departure from what they teach here, but I think the rationale is they want you to control the left part of your lane so a car doesn't try to squeeze by.

I'm not sure I agree with their answer in #1, and it's certainly not what they teach here. Riding in the centre of the lane might help keep others from "sharing" your lane, but you need to be more proactive than that. Left, right, or centre positioning may change depending on the kind of traffic/road you are in/on.

I think there are a few MSF instructors on here. I'd be curious to see how they respond.

[Steve]

Sorry about that. You really should have at least read through the manual before taking the test. That way, you might have been reminded of this sooner:

“It’s not uncommon for an experienced rider with a lot of years of riding under his/her belt to fail a written test; the trick is not to answer the question correctly but to answer the question with the answer they want.”
The light bulb goes off in my head… I actually remember my MSF instructor telling me that same thing;

Your logic on Question 7 escapes me, though:

Question 7: I was thinking in terms of sportbikes where most people use the front brake almost exclusively and forget that the rear brake is big component of shortening your stopping distance.

Evidently you have never seen a sportbike doing a "stoppie". Just how much is the rear brake contributing to stopping power when the rear wheel is in the air??

Have you ever seen a GoldWing or a Harley with its rear wheel in the air, doing a "stoppie"? Unfortunately, many of the Harley riders belong to the "when in trouble, lay 'er down" school of thought. They tend to use the rear brake ONLY, which leads to a collision most of the time.

Most of the data that I have seen says that the rear brake only contributes up to 30% to total stopping power, I am not sure that can be considered a "big component".

.

[almarconi]

To the OP, did you take the MSF course?

Most answers to the state test can be found in the booklet that they give you. I was always taught to apply both the front brake and the rear brake at the same time no matter what kind of bike you are riding.

[Midwest FZ Rider]

Your logic on Question 7 escapes me, though:
Evidently you have never seen a sportbike doing a "stoppie". Just how much is the rear brake contributing to stopping power when the rear wheel is in the air??

Most of the data that I have seen says that the rear brake only contributes up to 30% to total stopping power, I am not sure that can be considered a "big component".

There's lots of data supporting that the use of the rear brake shortens stopping distances by quite a bit. Also If you trail brake mid corner the bike tends to stay leaning where if you ham fist the front brake (which is EXACTLY what you are doing if you end up doing a stoppie during emergency braking) the bike tends to want to stand up. If you're logic is that they bike is going to stoppie so I'm not going to use the rear brake then you're one of the riders that I was thinking of when I answered this question wrong.

I've read through both Nick Ienatsch's Sportbike Riding Techniques and Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist more times than I can count. I took the MSF course at the start of my riding career and none of these ever taught that using the rear brake was pointless. Why have racers pro racers rigged up hand controls for their rear brakes when they have an injured left foot if the rear brake doesn't have a role?

Now my mistake was forgetting about the HD/Wing riders like you mentioned and a lot of them do use the rear brake almost exclusively so you're right there. And of course I should have read the darn book. And that makes me the bonehead :-D

[bwringer]

Yep, you have to read the stupid state manual and regugitate the answers they want, not what makes sense. Lots of silly irrelevant questions, too -- the test in Indiana is very similar. Both the manual and the test were obviously written by people who have never even seen a motorcycle.


For example, the state's "correct" answer to #4 is just plain wrong -- you'd have to be insane to roll down the center of a lane near an intersection and then make a turn because the center where most of the drippings from cars accumulate. (For the same reason, the state's answer to #1 is wrong as well -- your answer is safest.) I suppose the state always assumes perfect pavement.

Your answer, turn from the left, is safest mainly because you're more visible in that position. There's also an argument for turning from the right portion of the lane because you wouldn't have to cross the drippings trail to make your right turn. Depends on the conditions you see.

Also, I can't help but notice that the answers on #2 are essentially the same -- "slow down and move toward the curb" and "slow down and move away from the car" describe the same friggin' move...


And question #3... that's just a dumb question very obviously written by a non-rider. People who are taking this test have already figured out how a twist throttle operates. "Start with your wrist flat" is a mostly irrelevant detail. Might as well state "start with your bladder empty". Yes, it's a better way to do things, but who the hell cares?

[eil]

As your and others have said, that's a pretty goofy test, don't feel too bad about not passing it.

I'm particularly confused about all the questions to do with lane position. Every experienced rider who has offered an opinion on the topic (including MSF instructors) has said that it always depends on the exact circumstances at that very moment. The right answer depends on the design of the specific road or intersection, whether there's traffic, the behavior of particular drivers, whether there are potholes or debris, what the weather is like, possibly even the time of day. It's a judgement call every single time.

[Gorminrider]

Yes, as a rule, these are tests to see if you read their manual...In a way, it's a test to see if you can be instructed and appreciate that there is a higher power, who you must attend to... at least long enough to get your licence.
real life experience makes some of these "questions" darn near incomprehensible... and they evoke a 20 page thesis showing how and when the other choices are just as correct.

[BigD_83]

Also, I can't help but notice that the answers on #2 are essentially the same -- "slow down and move toward the curb" and "slow down and move away from the car" describe the same friggin' move...

I can't disagree with you. These are poorly worded questions, but have a reread:

From someone who (used to) create exams as part of my job, those two answers ARE different. Each action could have a different effect on the driver's reaction.

It's really a question of timing. I read the first as moving towards the curb "before" entering the intersection, and the second reads move "after" you have entered the intersection.

In the first case, the driver sees the motorcycle in the right side of the lane, which might indicate they are going to turn right and they'll want to turn into the intersection early.

The second answer, you ride in the left (or centre) part of the lane, controlling the lane, and send a message to the driver that you are coming straight through (assuming the driver is well-educated in the way of the road, and more importantly, aware).

In the first case, you leave yourself no option to move further right if the car pulls into the intersection in front of you. IN the second scenario, you have room to swerve right, AWAY from the car, if he pulls in front.

Of course, sometimes you have to swerve LEFT if that is the shortest path around a left-turner (ask me how I know!)


It's still a bad question/answer combination.

[Midwest FZ Rider]

Spent some time last night reading the manual and went through and took the online practice questions again. Just took the test over and passed with one wrong. Because I forgot to answer it sometimes I wonder about myself

[mrbill5491]

Spent some time last night reading the manual and went through and took the online practice questions again. Just took the test over and passed with one wrong. Because I forgot to answer it sometimes I wonder about myself

You sir do not belong on a bike then LMAO I did the same thing eons ago. got a 98 on the test, I missed answering one question. Weird thing was, I just had an accident a few hours before, was ticketed with no motorcycle endorsement. Hot footed down to the DMV took the test and missed that one question lol. Oh that was before they required a riding test. Anyways got the endorsement and the ticket was dismissed. Took the MSF course that fall.

[Tim Tom]

Don't feel bad I failed the written permit test before I got my license. Had to take it again .

I did however pass the written test and riding test with full marks thanks to the MSF class. Actually I was pretty proud I didn't get any points off in the riding test because it was pouring that day and both of my friends who took it when it was dry lost 2 or 3 points