Best Japanese super sport 600 for occasional track and weekend rides???

[8ball]

One thing about the R6. It is restricted out of the box. With the fly by wire the throttle doesn't open all the way (something like 85%). An ECU reflash transforms the bike. And it allows a ton of adjustment to be done. You can have the throttle plate restriction removed, alter the engine braking characteristics, load a fuel map on it, change the fan temp setting, enable a quick shifter (without having to use a Powercommander), Change the timing advance, and on 08 and up change when the variable intake velocity stacks lift. Usually you can get that done for around $150. Unfortunately you can't change the map without sending the ECU back to someone who has the flash equipment. (With fuel controllers like PowerCommander), you can modify the fuel map yourself with your laptop. But even if you have them unleash the rest of the features, you can still get a powerCommander so you can adjust the fueling for future mods, and such without sending the ECU in.

[Ray916MN]

I'd buy an SV650. Less body work to damage. Bullet proof. Unchanged for a long period of time so used OEM and performance parts are available for cheap. Widely raced, so there is a wealth of tuning and setup information available. Inexpensive and at the bottom of the depreciation cycle. Cheap to own and run and low depreciation cost. The perfect bike to use to learn on a track. Won't be as fast on the straights, but a well setup one should be able to hang with all the inline four 600s in the turns.

If you're going to be racing at Loudon, a well ridden SV650 will probably be capable of beating allot of 600s.

[Jedz123]

One thing about the R6. It is restricted out of the box. With the fly by wire the throttle doesn't open all the way (something like 85%). An ECU reflash transforms the bike. And it allows a ton of adjustment to be done. You can have the throttle plate restriction removed, alter the engine braking characteristics, load a fuel map on it, change the fan temp setting, enable a quick shifter (without having to use a Powercommander), Change the timing advance, and on 08 and up change when the variable intake velocity stacks lift. Usually you can get that done for around $150. Unfortunately you can't change the map without sending the ECU back to someone who has the flash equipment. (With fuel controllers like PowerCommander), you can modify the fuel map yourself with your laptop. But even if you have them unleash the rest of the features, you can still get a powerCommander so you can adjust the fueling for future mods, and such without sending the ECU in.

Thanks for the info 8ball! I'm really leaning hard on the R6 due to the fact it's loaded to the gills with technology. I really appreciate your input. Jury is still out but it will likely come down to cost and availability. Checked CL today and there are 7 R6's in the area that are priced $3500-$4500... When the time comes to buy I think I won't have any issue getting one.

I'd buy an SV650. Less body work to damage. Bullet proof. Unchanged for a long period of time so used OEM and performance parts are available for cheap. Widely raced, so there is a wealth of tuning and setup information available. Inexpensive and at the bottom of the depreciation cycle. Cheap to own and run and low depreciation cost. The perfect bike to use to learn on a track. Won't be as fast on the straights, but a well setup one should be able to hang with all the inline four 600s in the turns.

If you're going to be racing at Loudon, a well ridden SV650 will probably be capable of beating allot of 600s.

Like I said above... Won't be racing at all.. Just looking to ride a track hard and grow as a rider. The SV650 is a great torque bike but I'll likely be riding my super sport 80-90% of the time on public roads. It's going to be that bike to do 100 miles on or ride it out to the track for the day and ride it back with multiple breaks along the way. I just know I wouldn't be happy with a SV650. Just a dog when ridden flat out and for long rides, especially if I venture on an interstate. I know I'll be happier with an inline 4. My buddy has an 09 FZ6 which is a de-tuned R6 engine (98WHP at 13.5K RPM) and that's the type of power I'm looking to grab. Breaking 120mph is no problem on the Fizzy's I know its a problem with the SV650's. Thanks for the input but I really don't think the SV650 will mesh for my type of riding. Maybe an SV1100 though...

[Jedz123]

The Honda Hornet has a really competitive race series in the UK.

I'll look into this when I get home...

[lurch12_2000]

You wouldn't go wrong with this SV650 at half your budget. And you can carry a passenger a lot more comfortably than those other models occasionally if you want, too. I was tempted to look at it but the DL650 does everything I want to for now. The SV650 is light and good torque and will climb all those VT gap roads without a lot of hunting for the right gear and as nimble as you can push any bike in the corners on the street. 200+ mile tank range too and I bet the insurance is cheaper than those 600 models you mentioned. Ask Tas850g what he thinks of his at the track too. Let me know if you want me to check it out. Why worry about 120mph speed and losing your license anyway, right? Then having any bike is a moot point just sitting in the garage.

http://nh.craigslist.org/mcy/5261527532.html

[Jedz123]

You wouldn't go wrong with this SV650 at half your budget. And you can carry a passenger a lot more comfortably than those other models occasionally if you want, too. I was tempted to look at it but the DL650 does everything I want to for now. The SV650 is light and good torque and will climb all those VT gap roads without a lot of hunting for the right gear and as nimble as you can push any bike in the corners on the street. 200+ mile tank range too and I bet the insurance is cheaper than those 600 models you mentioned. Ask Tas850g what he thinks of his at the track too. Let me know if you want me to check it out. Why worry about 120mph speed and losing your license anyway, right? Then having any bike is a moot point just sitting in the garage.

http://nh.craigslist.org/mcy/5261527532.html

Holy Smokes!!! Because I value your opinion Steve(and that things is a frickin steal), I'll put it into consideration. I'll do some research and see what I can't do to upgrade... $2K for a fuel injected awesome handling bike is cheap...

[Mista M]

I am biased, sv650 seems to fit what you need. More forgiving power curve, and as said before, plenty of racing support.
You can always resell and move to more powerful bikes. But as entry into track days, grab a 1st or 2nd gen sv and have fun. 2003 models have 1 year only parts, so get 04 or up.

Personally, if i want an inline 4. Im going to the insurance auction and grabbing someone's wrecked bike for cheap and go from there. You have to do suspension anyway, so why not build a bike that fits for cheaper

[harley10]

I have owned many many bikes turbos , big bore bikes , my gladius 650 is one of the funnest bikes I have ridden ever , just my 2 cents worth , Brian

[RichDesmond]

Sigh...please don't take this the wrong way, but you're making most of the mistakes a track newbie makes.

1) Worrying about which brand bike to buy. It doesn't fricking matter. All the modern 600s are far more capable than you will ever be. What does make sense is to buy a well sorted track/race bike that has had the suspension completely done.
2) Buying a bike for street and track. You seem fairly serious about the track, if that's true it makes far, far more sense to have a dedicated track bike.
3) Overestimating your current ability. The stuff you say about riding the Connie makes me cringe. It just screams lousy technique. You are not finding the limits of the bike, it's exposing your limitations as a rider.

I completely agree with going with an SV, but be aware that they are not great handling stock. They need springs and oil (and emulators, perhaps) in the forks, and a good aftermarket shock in the rear. Done right though, they can be amazing. My SV650 race bike handles better (much, much better actually) than my Duc 848.

[Jedz123]

Sigh...please don't take this the wrong way, but you're making most of the mistakes a track newbie makes.

1) Worrying about which brand bike to buy. It doesn't fricking matter. All the modern 600s are far more capable than you will ever be. What does make sense is to buy a well sorted track/race bike that has had the suspension completely done.
2) Buying a bike for street and track. You seem fairly serious about the track, if that's true it makes far, far more sense to have a dedicated track bike.
3) Overestimating your current ability. The stuff you say about riding the Connie makes me cringe. It just screams lousy technique. You are not finding the limits of the bike, it's exposing your limitations as a rider.

I completely agree with going with an SV, but be aware that they are not great handling stock. They need springs and oil (and emulators, perhaps) in the forks, and a good aftermarket shock in the rear. Done right though, they can be amazing. My SV650 race bike handles better (much, much better actually) than my Duc 848.

No Worries I've learned to keep a box of cooking salt next to the computer purely for GSR... If you can't take any comment that pops on GSR with out a grain a salt then get the F off... IMO


It's fine, I know I need to work on my techniques, hence looking for a smaller bike that I can go on the track and do experienced rider courses with, if I go down with the bike I hope to learn some lessons from it. I am currently working with a local shop to sign up for track days with classes. I REALLY REALLY REALLY have no interest in racing. I intend on going to the track to hone my turning techniques and letting it all out safely in a controlled environment like a track... Instead of doing it on public roads... The thought of buying tires every few weeks doesn't appeal to me, neither does buying a truck, trailer and all the damn apparel that goes with track only bikes... Sorry In my eyes if I can't ride a bike on the street then I have no interest in owning it...

I had Hjfisk point out some of my poor techniques when we rode together a couple weeks back, which I actually picked up through the MSF courses. I practice a couple times a week on a closed lot with no instruction, I try to tighten my technique on what worked well and what didn't... What I need is instruction and GOOD practice. Which is what I'm hoping to get with track classes and days...

Thanks Rich for the 2 cents. I take allot of the advice I get from you guys and actually put it to some use. I've really started pondering if a SV650 would be the better bike for me... Let the personal research resume.

[8ball]

I cannot emphasize how bad an idea it is to ride a bike to a track day. If you crash or break down....and it will be much more likely that you will....you will have no way to get home. After a day at the track, you really have no idea, yet how exhausted you will be. If you arrive at the track on a street bike, your first and last 1/2 hours will be spent prepping the bike. I guarantee that you will go through more than 5 gallons of gas on the track. How will you carry the gas? You need about 1 gallon of water to drink. Same question. You need some basic tools, at a minimum including a tire gauge. You probably want some snacks, even if there is a snack bar at the track. You will be burning calories.

My track day kit usually includes a top box full of tools, 2 totes (filled with fluids, oil, small air compressor, extension cords, tire gauge, etc) an EZ-up (you really need this. It will get hot and you will be dehydrated), tire warmers (if you run street sport tires, this is just optional..DOT race compounds really should be on warmers), cooler with water and sports drinks, a bag of snacks, paper towels and rags....

The kit I had for racing included all that, and spare levers pegs, sprockets, rims, and some other stuff.

[Jedz123]

I cannot emphasize how bad an idea it is to ride a bike to a track day. If you crash or break down....and it will be much more likely that you will....you will have no way to get home. After a day at the track, you really have no idea, yet how exhausted you will be. If you arrive at the track on a street bike, your first and last 1/2 hours will be spent prepping the bike. I guarantee that you will go through more than 5 gallons of gas on the track. How will you carry the gas? You need about 1 gallon of water to drink. Same question. You need some basic tools, at a minimum.

My track day kit usually includes a top box full of tools, 2 totes (filled with fluids, oil, small air compressor, extension cords, tire gauge, etc) an EZ-up (you really need this. It will get hot and you will be dehydrated), tire warmers (if you run street sport tires, this is just optional..DOT race compounds really should be on warmers).

The kit I had for racing included all that, and spare levers pegs, sprockets, rims, and some other stuff.

OK... thanks for the info. I was under the impression there were not so aggressive days you could go and hone your skills, what I've been told... If that's not the case then I guess I won't be going to the track.

[Jedz123]

This IS the info that put me under the impression I could go and work on being a better rider at the track....

https://www.n2td.org/

From what you guys are saying that this stuff is myth and I either am 100% on board or 100% not... From what I can gather from you guys that these type of gatherings don't occur...

[8ball]

OK... thanks for the info. I was under the impression there were not so aggressive days you could go and hone your skills, what I've been told... If that's not the case then I guess I won't be going to the track.

It has nothing to do with aggression. You will be pushing your self....maybe not the first day because it will be more structured, but your subsequent times, depending on your exuberance level....you will. When you are pushing yourself farther and farther, you will eventually find the limit. The track is as addictive as heroine. It is much safer than the street, but that doesn't mean crashes, (or even mechanical issues) occur less frequently. Quite the opposite. It means that when it does happen, it usually results in far less damage to person of machine, and there are corner workers, spotters, crash trucks and, if need be, ambulances.

Riders are usually segregated in groups according to their experience and speed (A, B and C). You would start out in the C group, and be with others who are moving at a similar pace. But believe me, the faster the group doesn't mean more crashes. Again, quite the opposite, The A group usually has the fewest number of crashes. B group actually has the most problem because they have gotten over the timidity and are starting to push harder than they are able. Not trying to scare you. It's just that the purpose of a track day isn't to putt around on a Sunday drive. It's to have fun and go fast...faster than you ever have on the street! If someone is going slow, sometimes they can be more of a danger.

You hone your skills, absolutely!! But how do you do that? By going at a pace that pushes (not stretches, mind you) your comfort zone. Once you are comfortable there, you push a little farther, and so on. That's how we develop any skill. At some point, a mistake will be made. Usually, that might result in a quick slide, or chassis bobble, that you recover and keep going, but you do have to be prepared for the mistake that results in picking the bike up off the deck. And at the track that is all it is. There are no trees, telephone poles, on-coming cars, or cell phone drivers. You dust yourself off, fix the bike and anticipate the next time you can get back out there and practice not doing what you did the last time.

But all the crash talk aside, fatigue and dehydration are a big problem. You won't realize how much exertion you are putting out...until afterward. I usually will go through a gallon of water and two quarts of gatorade in a day! Plus, without some shade you NEED to have a hat that keeps the sun off you, at a minimum.

[Ray916MN]

This IS the info that put me under the impression I could go and work on being a better rider at the track....

https://www.n2td.org/

From what you guys are saying that this stuff is myth and I either am 100% on board or 100% not... From what I can gather from you guys that these type of gatherings don't occur...

All track days are not run the same way. Some are track days where you get to go out on the track segregated into groups by experience. Some are track days where varying degrees of instruction and coaching are provided. The operation you linked to provides instruction and should provide a good opportunity to learn how to ride better.

That said, most track days where instruction is provided are pretty expensive (several $100 or much more) while most track days without instruction are relatively inexpensive (<$100). While track riding can help build skills, since a track is a controlled environment where you repeat the same turns over and over, track skills are not necessarily directly translatable to street riding skills. On the street the ability to read a turn you've never seen before and figure out a proper line along with the ability to recognize and manage your level of riding reserve on the fly to avoid getting into trouble are essential. Most track schools are oriented towards teaching riders race skills. More street oriented training is available from companies like Total Control, http://www.totalcontroltraining.net/ and CLASS, http://www.classrides.com/ and Stayin' Safe, http://www.stayinsafe.com/