no spark - gpz600r 1985

[ukjules]

I have a gpz600r , been stood for a year in a garage
When I last got it going.
The starter solenoid is broken and I have to bridge terminals to turn over which it does.
It seems to have relapsed without me riding or touching it.

I get no spark on any plug.

Status :

Plugs all Ok, set right and work on another bike.
Leads all Ok and tested
Coils all Ok. Tested primary and secondary.
Battery - fully charged

It is electric ignition .

Electrics is not my strong point.

Where do I go next ?
Can I test pickups to the ecu ?( called ic ignited on this bike
And expensive if I can even get one )

Help ....

[Buffalo Bill]

Check and clean all connectors, those will go bad during storage.
You're turning it over when you bridge the solenoid, but probably there's no E to the coils, check for E when switch is on.
Check the timing signal and connectors.
Last resort will be replacing the igniter, they usually don't fail. However you can buy them used/salvaged.
Wouldn't mind owning a GPz600R myself!!!

[ukjules]

Many thanks.

I will supply full analysis soon.
It's a pig of a bike to work on , like the first superbike
But has all the design faults for being so.

Voltage to coils
Pickup tests
(And I'll try and bridge positive direct to coils
And try and start)
(Ordered more ht lead cable as others were rock hard )

P.s - my trusty gs550 that went round Europe a few
years ago is readying for a Italy, Corsica, France, Spain
Adventure this year. Will post

[ukjules]

Will test what you informed and :

Plan: (starting done by bridging solenoid terminals ) (the seperate issue of bust solenoid - new one required )
-Test pickups
-Test volts to coils (I hadn't done that...
-'re check system with coils bridged to pos terminal on battery and see if sparks
-check kill switch
- check any conditions like side stand , clutch etc. ( thing is if turning over with bridging the solenoid would these matter or take effect ?)

Q) would kill switch to off allow a bike to start if bridging the solenoid?

[ukjules]

Pickups tested:
Pair wires showed infinity resistance, poor connection.

Dismantled box connector, cleaned and now both pairs show 400ohms.

Q) would this have caused a no spark on all cylinders or just 2 of the 4 ?

[ukjules]

12v to coils?:
When ignition turned off 0 voltage
When ignition on , neutral, side stand , clutch not pull
In - intermittently

So I am right in thinking with ignition on there should be
12v to the positive of the primary coil .

[ukjules]

Update:

Jump the Coils:
Turning over the bike whilst applying 12v direct to the coil (one of them) I get a spark !!!


I am on the maximum of my electric knowledge so now how do I find why
12v is not reliably getting to the
Coils ?

What does this tell me ?

[Brendan W]

Without a wiring diagram I'm guessing but...
Typically the supplies go
Ign...........Kill............Coil
Ign...........Kill............Starter button...........starter lockout...........Relay

Coils and relay depend on the ign switch and kill switch. There might a be a place to start.

Found one
With the ign on check you have supply at the yellow going into the stop/kill switch and with the stop closed that there is supply coming back out on the red wire.
It wouldn't be the first time a bike of that age had dirty contacts in the stop switch or ignition switch for that matter. They are usually easy enough to open and sort.
http://www.classiccycles.org/media/DIR_1653304/DIR_1667004/7b4ebf4db60cffe5ffff84adffffe417.JPG

[srsupertrap]

Update:

Jump the Coils:
Turning over the bike whilst applying 12v direct to the coil (one of them) I get a spark !!!


I am on the maximum of my electric knowledge so now how do I find why
12v is not reliably getting to the
Coils ?

What does this tell me ?

Never worked on that model but I think you have isolated the problem. If that 600R has a clutch/kickstand safety feature, you should have 12V to the coils when the kickstand is up & clutch lever depressed, correct? Clean those connections and verify continuity with Ohmmeter.

Even w/o a manual you can use the 82 GPz750 to compare how the starter switch, interconnects and coils should work. Check the good one compare to the bad one . . . same company, similar era

[ukjules]

Many thanks for the information and I'll post tomorrow the analysis.
The starter solenoid only has two inputs a plus and a minus and no conditions like side stand and clutch
so I think
it gives 12 volts to the coil in any case.
As I got 12 volts at the coil but intermittently.

Tomorrow I will do as you say and provide analysis

[Brendan W]

The starter lockout switch(s) will be on the supply side to the relay solenoid.
It or they are of the normally open type so unless the sidestand is up and or the clutch is pulled in the supply will not reach the relay.
All that presumes that the kill or stop switch is closed and clean.
If you trace the supply from the starter button down on through the wiring diagram you will find them.
There won't be any extra inputs to the relay.
On the diagram posted earlier all the connections between the start button, clutch switch, sidestand switch and relay seem to happen in the junction box in the top right corner.

[ukjules]

Understood...
When you say relay solenoid , that is what I think of as the starter solenoid ?
That I have to bridge to turn the bike over presently .
Or is it something else ?

I am at the max of my knowledge having located the
Area why the bike is not sparking .....

But I will try and find all these bits.
Report tomorrow

[Brendan W]

Inside the relay case is a bar that shorts the two big terminals to turn the starter motor.
I suppose this is what you are doing on the outside with a screwdriver or similar.
There is also a small electromagnet or solenoid coil winding.
When the coil is energised the magnetic field pulls the bar onto the terminals completing the circuit from battery to starter motor.
Again if you look to the diagram posted earlier, right of bottom centre is the starter relay. The coil is depicted as a rectangle and below it the bar that gets pulled across the terminals.
The red and yellow wire to the coil runs back up to the junction box where it is energised if the side stand switch, the clutch switch, the kill switch and the ignition switch are all closed.

[ukjules]

Understood and yes I use a screwdriver....

Mountains of analysis to follow today.

[ukjules]

Status only a spark when I bridge the
Coil primary side with direct voltage. ( since kill switch fix no longer sparks at all )
Starter solenoid very likely broken ...

Tests:
Kill switch. Cleaned box connector
- prior to cleaning no voltage coming out but
Now voltage coming in and out. Works as a switch

Starter button : voltage to it bit not coming out when
Button pressed. Not possible to strip switch .

Clutch switch- no voltage getting to it.

Side stand switch. Cleaned and voltage to
Centre wire if down and not if up .
It may be the other way round but it acts as a switch .

Starter solenoid. 12 v at terminals so can jump.
But on the two inputs 12v not getting to it obviously
As the starter switch is not allowing voltage through

This is the status now.

I can barely read or understand the wiring diagram
As I am red green colour blind.