Cmon man!...474 lbs 110hp but dosn't run 10s?????????????????????????????

[mharrington]

My observation: New retro Retro Kawaski Z900RS. This is aimed at you older guys like me who read the 1/4 mile magazine shootouts in the 1970s and 80s.In the 80s Jay "Peewee" Gleason got the best times from the bikes. He was superior to the other magazine test pilots. Truly the man.For example my bike- 1983 GS1100E he got to run in the high 10s but more realistic was 11.25ish. So the new Z900RS makes more power than the as stated 1983 GS1100E and weighs about 80lbs less.... BUT....Magazine tests show the new RS at 11.30ish in the 1/4 mile. Anyone else here see the problem? More power less weight but same acceleration???? I would think the RS would be 10s (with a skilled pilot of course.) I believe 1/4 mile times are not significant today like in the good ole days AND I believe 1/4 mile testing and racing may be frowned upon by some..therefore the drag tests are not done with a true pro or the bike is simply not rung out by the tester to achieve maximum results. For those interested:

1983 Suzuki GS1100E. Power 108hp. weight 560lbs. 1/4 mile time: 11.20-11.40 seconds. ( I own this model and its my baby)
2018 Kawasaki Z900RS Power 110hp. weight 475lbs. 1/4 mile time: 11.25-11.40 seconds. (I want one!!!)

In the world of bikes the weight difference of 80 plus lbs is HUGE. Kawasaki has same or better power output. I think in prime Jay Gleason would get mid tens. A lesser but skilled pilot should be able to get high tens.

[80GS1000]

What are the torque numbers for the GS1100E and the Z900RS? What RPM do these bikes make peak torque? The GS may be quicker in the quarter and off the line if it has more torque down low, although the Kawi may have a higher eventual top speed due to the slight HP advantage.

I suspect that like many other modern sportbike engines, the Kawi makes its peak HP at very high RPMs and has relatively low torque numbers at low RPM. This makes rider launcing skill all the more important.

[Buffalo Bill]

I've noticed the low 1/4 mile ETs of post 2K FI sport bikes. 120-130HP but they only get 11s?
Kinda suspect EPA compromised performance.
Also noticed how common a Power Commander is mentioned in list of mods for used bikes.
Like to see before and after 1/4 mile tests for Power Commander installs on new bikes

[Cipher]

1/4 mile et is not a real world performane measure.

[fbody_mike]

They forgot to mention that the test rider weighs nearly 300 pounds now

[dorkburger]

I suppose one would need to verify some things... How were HP measurements were done for each- rear wheel vs crank? Were altitude corrections done if tracks were in different elevations? Does the new fuel injected bike reduce power in low gears to protect the rider from himself? Did the big, heavy, and long old bike hook up and launch better?

Its just bragging rights anyway. A new bike is better in every way except for being old, simple, and cool.

[Big T]

They used to cheat on the 1/4 mile times in the 70s.
Stickier rear tires, etc
Plus, PWG was a pro drag racer, not a magazine staffer

[mharrington]

I've noticed the low 1/4 mile ETs of post 2K FI sport bikes. 120-130HP but they only get 11s?
Kinda suspect EPA compromised performance.
Also noticed how common a Power Commander is mentioned in list of mods for used bikes.
Like to see before and after 1/4 mile tests for Power Commander installs on new bikes

1/4 mile time significant? Depends on the owner. Bragging rights are a powerful thing to some. I couldnt run High tens on anything but I the attraction to my 1100E was that Jay Gleason dipped into the 10s with it. Yes Jay is a outlier- in full gear dripping wet he weighed well under 140lbs. BTW in the early 2000s Jay would run anyones bike in the 1/4 mile for a fee. 1/4 mile is important too many aficionados who were young men in that era. Acceleration was why many 70s superbikes got a Vance and Hines or Kerker 4 into 1, Pricey K&N pods and a carb retune.

And Buffalo Bill I think pro test pilots either lack skills, are told to not go all out or the pilot and his employer dont see estimated times as important. Thus they give it 75% effort. Some things have been demonized in the wake of reckless stunters , reckless sportbikers and drunk cruiser riders.

I believe the Kawaski is rated in HP at the wheel. Our beloved Suzuki I dont know. The Kaw has a tp speed limiter but not an RPM limiter when slamming gears. I read the newest CB1100 Honda retro prevents hitting redline in every gear due to its aggressive RPM limit.

When people ask about my 83 GS1100E (mainly young guys) I tell them period testing my bike ran low 11s.....but a little guy name Pee Wee Gleason touched the tens. Even the modern sportbikers riding Gixxers and CBRs are impressed.

[dorkburger]

Bragging rights do indeed appeal to some.
There was old GS1150 ad bragging about its 10.47 e.t.... I think it did mention Gleason....

[Rob S.]

The 108 HP of the '82 11E was a manufacturer's claim, not the rear wheel measured on a Dynojet. I would guess that 108 was equivalent to "at the crank."

I always trusted Cycle World as the gold standard. Their most accomplished rider would thrash those bikes. After all, they were loaners. And in later years, they used computers to correct the ETs for differences in altitude, humidity, etc.

In '81, they got the 11E down to 11.1. In '82, 11.2. They only got down to 10.99 with '83's ES model, which had a small fairing (same engine). When the 1977 KZ1000 did 12.2, it was front page news! I had a picture of the KZ1000 LTD ("Z and be seen") and the Harley Sportster on my dorm room wall. I couldn't decide which I wanted more (I was riding a souped up, customized CB350 at the time).

Top speeds have been limited to 300 kph (186 mph) for years by the 'gentlemen's agreement' between the top manufacturers who were afraid, after the '99 Hayabusa did 194 right out of the box, that governments were about to step in and regulate things.

So that's what era and school of thought I'm from. I couldn't decide between a Sportster and a big bore in-line four, so...both! But if it came down to it, and one had to go, bye bye Harley!

[mharrington]

OK on another forum it was pointed out that Jay Gleasons test bikes were teaked. I should know better but ok now I know. He was highly skilled and a tiny man. The 1970s were a fantastic time for inline 4 bikes. Musclecars and their 1/4 mile war were done and gone by 1972. But it had just started heating up that same year with Japanense bikes. The Kaw Z1 then the GS1000- 1978 magazine tested the XS1100 Yamaha and said it was the first production bike they got into the 11s. Honda CBX1000 6 cyl- TSCC Suzuki GS1100-CB1100F-KZ1100s. Then the era of V4s came in. V65 Magna and V Max. Suzuki even had a big liquid cooled 1200c V4 named the Madura. The bikes I have owned were selected because of their history and they were for sale close to home. Got back into bikes after a 16 year absence with the purchase of a 78 XS750 triple. The 78 was a big deal- much improved power over the 76 and 77 triple. Not as quick as the GS 750 but still ran in the 12s. Little narrower than GS cool sound. Three years later repaced with a 78 GS1000. Powerful cool bike. History need not explained. Then replaced it with a 79 XS1100F. Dang what a monster. Big heavy bike but wow was it powerful. And finally traded it and some $$ for my current 83 GS1100E. Vance and Hines 4 into 1 APE pods and properly modded carbs. Man this thing flies and it sounds wonderful. XS1100 was fast but this bike is faster and more nimble and stops better. I went to the Lakeshore blessing of the bikes 9 miles from me in 2018. 2500 bikes. I so wanted to see and converse with classic n
bike owners. Sadly the make up of those 2500 bikes were as such: 85% new/newer Harley. 5% metric V twin. 5% sport bikes, 4% other (New/Newer BMW Ductati Triumph Etc.) and 1% classic 70s Japanese bikes.

[dorkburger]

The 83 1100e is a special bike to me.
A used and abused one was my introduction to old GSs, and despite its abused past it was still fast and torquey- especially when stepping up from a Kawasaki LTD 550. It made such an impression that 25 years later I still love the GS range. I'd love to someday collect the pieces of my old 1100 and rebuild it - its still in the family, but the engine blew a few years after I sold it to my cousin. It killed a rod bearing if I recall.

[Nessism]

Back in the GS era 1/4 mile times were a big deal, particularly with performance bikes. That hasn't been the focus for a long time though, and most customers for a bike like the Z900RS probably don't even care. Given the weight and hp numbers of the Kawasaki I suspect it could break into the 10's if someone really cared to push it...buy why?

[mharrington]

https://www.visordown.com/news/new-b...new-supernaked

New ZH2 is ready for you to place your order. 200hp at the crank.

I've ridden a lot since 2001. About 275K miles on a bike with 120 hp at the rear wheel. I typically go 10 to 20 over the speed limit and occasionally up to 90. 1/4 mile and top speed claims mean little to my buying and owning decisions.

I did a thread on another site asking members "How fast is fast......for you". The answer from 90% of members on that site was 10 to 15 mph over. Most of those members had moved on to the Big Ducatis, BMWs and KTMs which was why I asked the question. I was curious if owners that moved from 120 hp at the rear wheel to 180 hp at the rw drove any differently. They didn't seem to. The reality is roads, road conditions, urban sprawl, law enforcement and insurance points end up trumping moto foolery and racer dreams.

I have yet to ride my brothers Hyubusa. I dont like that ride position plus after riding it my bike would forever feel slow. I guess my bike is like a 70 Hemi Cuda- bad ass in its day but not compared to new offerings and Im fine with that. I really like it when the engine is the visual centerpiece of the bike. Harley and Triumph do a great job of this but they dont offer inline 4s. Hondas new CB1100 has a beautiful engine but power is less than the original.(original 105 new retro 88hp) Kawasaki hits a nice nostalgic visual chord- nice looking engine while offering more power than the original. I have noticed the Brits and Aussies and others across the pond have a strong affection for 70s superbikes. You guys are pretty cool.

[dorkburger]

We are of a similar mindset. I've also compared the early 80s superbikes to muclecars. They are that sweet spot of mechanical and visual simplicity of the past, yet have plenty of power, and offered a glimpse of even more power to come. After 20 years of owning my 1150, it still has more then enough power to make me giggle, and I'm still infatuated with it.