83 gs450l

[gk45011]

First off hello,
I am new and just purchased a 83 GS450L. The bike starts quickly with no issues. However it has Clubman bars on it and the idle and clutch are giving me fits. I didn't get a long time to ride or document before i started tearing it down.

Both cables seem to be moving free ly, however the idle wants to adjust by itself, and the clutch acts like it has a catch point. It is either pulled or in gear. there is no smooth takeoff without reving and going.

I am not super familiar with this bike, and my motorcyle knowledge is minimal at best. I have the Clymer manual and some of it I get and other parts just leave me lost.

I am hoping that I can get some solid answers from the people in know. I would also like to put pods on but leave the stock headers and mufflers. I have been told I should go up two sizes in the main jet. What is the stock jet for this bike? what size is two sizes up?

My last bike was an xs1100 and somehow seemed easier to work on. I can't find a fuse box on this bike, only a mian fuse. I can't find a cdi. I am at a loss.

Heeeeeelp! Newbee needs help!

Gary

[pete]

First off hello,
I am new and just purchased a 83 GS450L. The bike starts quickly with no issues. However it has Clubman bars on it and the idle and clutch are giving me fits. I didn't get a long time to ride or document before i started tearing it down.

Hey Gary, welcome! Good to see another 450 popping along.

Both cables seem to be moving free ly, however the idle wants to adjust by itself, and the clutch acts like it has a catch point. It is either pulled or in gear. there is no smooth takeoff without reving and going.

Do the cables seem to be the right length with the clubmans? There's a big difference between the stock pull back bars and clubmans, so it's possible they've been replaced with too short cables that is causing binding when turning, and of course they could simply have been routed incorrectly also.

If either clutch or throttle cable appear to be frayed at all, replace them, and it's a good idea to give them a good lube job too.

I am not super familiar with this bike, and my motorcyle knowledge is minimal at best. I have the Clymer manual and some of it I get and other parts just leave me lost.

The Clymer's ok, and better than the Haynes in a lot of aspects, but you can't beat a factory manual which should also have the correct cable routing in it.

Have a look on eBay for a seller "eClassic Bike" as he sells inexpensive factory reproduction manuals and may have one for your bike. If it's not listed, ask him as he may have it anyway.

I am hoping that I can get some solid answers from the people in know. I would also like to put pods on but leave the stock headers and mufflers. I have been told I should go up two sizes in the main jet. What is the stock jet for this bike? what size is two sizes up?

Have a look at Alpha Sports for their parts fiche to get the stock sizes (they're expensive but have the best fiche, so buy them elsewhere).

I know the 80 - 82 models reasonably well having rebuilt my 82 but there were big changes in the 83 model year so not familiar with all the details there.

If moving to pods, make sure you get good quality ones like K&N or APE, otherwise your jetting will likely end up all over the shop.

My last bike was an xs1100 and somehow seemed easier to work on. I can't find a fuse box on this bike, only a mian fuse. I can't find a cdi. I am at a loss.

Heeeeeelp! Newbee needs help!

Gary

I'm pretty sure the 83 still maintains just a single main fuse, and if it's a glass type then swap it out for a blade type.

You don't have a CDI, but you do have transistorised ignition

It'll be a black box under the left side cover if it's like the 80 - 82 models and on the 83 I'm pretty sure they swapped to electronic advance too.

Also, if you haven't been there yet, get into the GS Owners forum and put a gidday thread in, and follow the link in the sticky at the top to BassCliff's page of awesomeness.

[gk45011]

Gs 450

Thanks Pete,

If anything the cables seem way to long. However they do not appear to be binding. The throttle snaps back quickly and without issue. the Choke returns all the way without binding. The clutch is another story here. How hard is it to change out a clutch cable?

As for the carb jetting I am just down right getting frustrated. I think if I removed the airbox and went to larger mains it would at least take some of the possible air leak areas out of the situation. However if I get the wrong jets or cheap jets it may make it a heck of a ot worse.

I'll look into the factory manual. Lord knows with my limited ability I need all the help I can get. The Alpha sports site is somewhat helpful. It shows that #8 is a "hose" i assume this is the vacum hose to the fuel petcock? I received this bike with the tank off. I have the bung off the bottom of the petcock run to this vacum breather hose inlet/outlet. The bung facing to the rear is run to the fuel inlet in the middle of the carbs. Is this correct? If I put the petcock in on or reserve (with the bike not running the tank will not seal. This is giving me fits because I would love to be able to pull the tank off to work on some of this without having to drain the tank each time.

As for the diagram it is giving me a part number:
Part# 09491-23011
Desc JET MAINUSD Price 10.50

But it is not giving me a standard main jet size. I am not sure what one up or two up is from this. The mufflers will stay stock.
Can anyone tell me if I should go up one size or two and if so what size jet would that be?

Gary

[pete]

Thanks Pete,

If anything the cables seem way to long. However they do not appear to be binding. The throttle snaps back quickly and without issue. the Choke returns all the way without binding. The clutch is another story here. How hard is it to change out a clutch cable?

Snapping back is fine and won't change if it's routed wrong. If it's routed wrong, it can pull on the throttle connection on the carb itself when turning left or right. That should be pretty easy to tell though as it should be consistent every time you turn left or right if you know what I mean.

If that's not it, then you'll need to look at intake air leaks in the airbox, carb boots between airbox and carbs, and intake boots to the head including the O rings underneath. Jetting and clean carbs will also possibly contribute.

The clutch isn't too hard to do on mine and I don't think it would've changed radically on yours. It anchors under the front sprocket cover and the manuals are pretty good with that job.

As for the carb jetting I am just down right getting frustrated. I think if I removed the airbox and went to larger mains it would at least take some of the possible air leak areas out of the situation. However if I get the wrong jets or cheap jets it may make it a heck of a ot worse.

That's why I've stuck with genuine Mikuni's in mine, at least I know they're the real deal and are the size I ordered.

Go to www.motorcyclecarbs.com and in their support area are some rules of thumb for rejetting that will give you a good starting point. Plug chops are required to know if you're on the right track or not and there is a write up on that on BassCliff's site.

I'll look into the factory manual. Lord knows with my limited ability I need all the help I can get. The Alpha sports site is somewhat helpful. It shows that #8 is a "hose" i assume this is the vacum hose to the fuel petcock? I received this bike with the tank off. I have the bung off the bottom of the petcock run to this vacum breather hose inlet/outlet. The bung facing to the rear is run to the fuel inlet in the middle of the carbs. Is this correct? If I put the petcock in on or reserve (with the bike not running the tank will not seal. This is giving me fits because I would love to be able to pull the tank off to work on some of this without having to drain the tank each time.

The fuel tap should have two outlets, one for the fuel outlet and one for the vacuum port on the carbs. The smaller diameter should be the vacuum and larger for the fuel.

The fuel tap is vacuum operated, so if you have the tap on "On" or "Reserve" then no fuel should flow with the engine off. On "Pri" you should get fuel flowing.

If fuel is flowing in On or Reserve, then it's knackered and needs replacing. There are rebuild kits but there has been mixed success with those.

As for the diagram it is giving me a part number:
Part# 09491-23011
Desc JET MAINUSD Price 10.50

But it is not giving me a standard main jet size. I am not sure what one up or two up is from this. The mufflers will stay stock.
Can anyone tell me if I should go up one size or two and if so what size jet would that be?

Gary

Hmmmm looking at the fiche on Alpha Sports tells me:

27 09492-45016 .JET, PILOT (45)

29 09494-00379 .JET, NEEDLE (O-6)

31 09491-23011 .JET, MAIN (115)

43 13383-44460 .NEEDLE, JET (5CDT60)

So you have 45 pilots as stock, O-6 needle jets as stock, 115 mains as stock, and a 5CDT60 needle as stock.

To get correct replacements, get the Sudco catalog (www.sudco.com) in PDF format and browse through until you find the correct jets. Mikuni's go up in increments of 2.5, so two up will be 120...

As for whether 2 up is right or not, see above about Motorcycle Carbs website and BassCliff's site

[hjacobmiller]

Man Pete way to go with the Q&A!

Gary, I'm still a little wet behind on the ears on all of this as well, but I'll share what I've learned in my 3 or 4 months of messing with these old bikes.

Before you do anything to the carbs, PLEASE for your own sake, strip and dip the carbs and get some new orings. After thirty years of god knows what running through them, you'll save yourself a ton of work by just getting them up to snuff before you start trying to put pods on them. I want pods as much as the next guy, but a good running baseline with healthy carbs is worth its weight in gold, if not in brass with all the jets you'll be buying trying to figure it out without getting them to run stock. Not to mention overhauling the carbs about 50 times. I 100% guarantee that your idle issues with be resolved if you go this way.

Next, take your time on things and learn how the stock things work before changing anything. When I first started working on mine I thought "hey i've got the manual. put gas in, turn the key, yada yada yada." 3 months later I'm still working the bugs out because I tried to rush. You are probably smarter about things than I was when I started, but its good to really get to know things before you try and change them.

Finally, read everything on BassCliff's site and don't be afraid to ask questions! Pete and Mechanix helped me fit a completely new ignition system in my rustbucket. These guys know there stuff!

Oh, and I forgot to mention - post pictures of your bike! People respond to your questions faster

[Zbradley1215]

bars

First off hello,
However it has Clubman bars on it

you say that like you dont want the bars, interested in selling them? or maybe trading? i hae what i think are superbike bars maybe? they look like these.

http://www.bikebandit.com/pro-taper-contour-handlebars

i would love to have a set of clubmans

[gk45011]

Gs 450

[gk45011]

Thanks for the advise guys. I will look into a new petcock(I may add an inline petcock temporarily).

I do not see that the thottle cable is binding and it is run down the right side as described. The clutch and clutch cable also seems to be routed appropriately, However seems to stick when releasing about halfway out. causing abrupt takeoffs or a stall. I guess its time to replace the clutch cable?

The fuel line on this thing currently is LOOOOOOONG. I am wondering ifsince it has loops and is not a fairly direct route if it is starving the bowls. When the fuel shifts or pushes down into the bowl perhaps that is when I am getting my rush or surging idle due to the throttle being mal adjusted when it is starving for fuel normally. I plan on shortening and correcting this route to see if this helps (unless you all say that isn't it).

The carbs have "just been cleaned" and "rebuilt" by a qualified shop. Or so the receipts say. Does anyone have any video shots of their tach to compare my throttle response return to?

I plan on keeping the Clubmans. In the few short around the block rides I really liked the feel and position. I do however have the original bars, grab rail, mirrors, chain guard, and possibly seat for sale or trade.

Gary

[gk45011]

OK, back from vintage days and could find everything but a mechanic that needed a place to stay.

Through a cheap ass inline lawn mower petcock in between the original and the fuel filter until I can rebuild or find an OEM vacum petcock At least now I can remove tank if needed.

The cable is routed on the right side as has been described. Everytime i think I have the idle set and let it run for a few and them take it around the block The idle changes and starts hanging. When I have the idle set originally (engine warm) It seems fine. After I have run it under a load it starts sticking at 3-5 grand. I have used the starter fluid trick and can't find a vacum leak.

I am again at a loss here.

I have played with the clutch routing as well. It does not seem to be binding but is grabbing toward the end of the lever throw. There is no feathering the clutch whatsoever. Any ideas here? Can I adjust this at all on the actual clutch side?

I am a newb so I know these questions seem somewhat retarded, Whats my next course of action?

Gary

[hjacobmiller]

OK, back from vintage days and could find everything but a mechanic that needed a place to stay.

Through a cheap ass inline lawn mower petcock in between the original and the fuel filter until I can rebuild or find an OEM vacum petcock At least now I can remove tank if needed.

The cable is routed on the right side as has been described. Everytime i think I have the idle set and let it run for a few and them take it around the block The idle changes and starts hanging. When I have the idle set originally (engine warm) It seems fine. After I have run it under a load it starts sticking at 3-5 grand. I have used the starter fluid trick and can't find a vacum leak.

I am again at a loss here.

I have played with the clutch routing as well. It does not seem to be binding but is grabbing toward the end of the lever throw. There is no feathering the clutch whatsoever. Any ideas here? Can I adjust this at all on the actual clutch side?

I am a newb so I know these questions seem somewhat retarded, Whats my next course of action?

Gary

Did you get new intake orings for your intake boots yet?

I don't want to sound like a broken record but new boots and orings help alot.

Also, check how your throttle cable attaches to your carb bodies. There should be a two lock nut system that raises/lowers where your throttle cable engages the throttle arm and butterfly valves in the carbs. If you raise the bottom lock nut it will give more slack between when you roll the throttle and the throttle arm turns.

What could be happening is if that bottom nut is too low the throttle cable is starting to pull the throttle valves open before you even roll on the throttle.

More likely there is an air leak between your boots and the head though.

Clutch is tricky. Have you set it by taking off the rubber plug on the clutch cover per the manual?

I had very similar problems and I know its frustrating because it sounds like the engine is about to blow up it idles so high.

[pete]

With your idle, not sure if I mentioned this earlier but you really want to make sure the bike is properly and fully warmed up before attempting to adjust the idle. If you think you have it adjusted and it's cold, it will be adjusted too low.

Aside from that, yes, definitely intake leaks. Spraying stuff around the intake boots isn't a guaranteed way of finding intake leaks. My original intake boots appeared to seal well, were a little rubbery, and with some rubber grease I was able to get the carbs to seat and appear to seal. However, the rubber had shrunk with age so the clamps didn't really clamp them properly and I had major intake leaks even with new O rings. New intake boots for about $25 each sorted that perfectly, no more leaks or hanging idle.

First thing I'd be doing is shooting some lube down that clutch cable and checking the adjustment at both the sprocket cover and clutch lever ends.

[gk45011]

Next round

I always thought the propane or starter fluid route was the way to go. If there was a leak i figured it would have to force a high rev condition. If I still can't figure it out in a day or so I guess it will be time for new carb boots.

As for the cluth at the basket. I can't find the damn page in the clymer about adjustment on that end (its an old book with pages falling out. I'm gonna have to add that to the "to purchase new" list as well.

Gary

With your idle, not sure if I mentioned this earlier but you really want to make sure the bike is properly and fully warmed up before attempting to adjust the idle. If you think you have it adjusted and it's cold, it will be adjusted too low.

Aside from that, yes, definitely intake leaks. Spraying stuff around the intake boots isn't a guaranteed way of finding intake leaks. My original intake boots appeared to seal well, were a little rubbery, and with some rubber grease I was able to get the carbs to seat and appear to seal. However, the rubber had shrunk with age so the clamps didn't really clamp them properly and I had major intake leaks even with new O rings. New intake boots for about $25 each sorted that perfectly, no more leaks or hanging idle.

First thing I'd be doing is shooting some lube down that clutch cable and checking the adjustment at both the sprocket cover and clutch lever ends.

[hjacobmiller]

I always thought the propane or starter fluid route was the way to go. If there was a leak i figured it would have to force a high rev condition. If I still can't figure it out in a day or so I guess it will be time for new carb boots.

As for the cluth at the basket. I can't find the damn page in the clymer about adjustment on that end (its an old book with pages falling out. I'm gonna have to add that to the "to purchase new" list as well.

Gary

Check some of the other manuals on Basscliff's site. Should be similar for the clutch adjustments.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

[gk45011]

I finally found what I was looking for on the basscliff site. The GS 450 manual is in with the 400-425. As soon as it stops raining here i will try to loosen the cable and adjust the clutch at the basket as described.

Gary