450 engine rebuild

[phillipjohnw]

That's a lot of pressure. I guess I'll have to tie my camera to my arm so I don't forget.

I did see a picture of a tiki cylinder like you mentioned, don't know what they used to do it though.

I know its not a gs, but this is what I think I'm going to shoot for in the end. I don't think I'm up to cutting and welding the frame right now, but a guy can dream.

[phillipjohnw]

Well got a little work done tonight. Engine is still in the bike, but I did get the stuck piston out and most of the carbon cleaned off. Whoever I got the cylinders and piston from didn't compress the bottom ring all the way when they slid it into the piston and through shipping it must have gotten jammed in. The ring is toast, but there was no visible damage to the sleeve.

Is there any trick to getting the piston rings in or out easily? The top two I can pull with my hands, but the bottom one with the oil channel is a bit more of a challenge.

I'll get some more pics up tomorrow if I can.

[Mekanix]

Rings are worth replacing anyways.

Rings are easy to get out. That bottom one is actually 3 pieces. Start with the thin outside ones and the center will come out.

[phillipjohnw]

Here are some more pics.

This is the banged up bottom ring.


Slowly getting cleaned up.


Engine is out finally.


Another shot.

[Mekanix]

You should be able to get that ring off without too much trouble. Just take the bottom one off first and the middle will drop down a bit and let you take the top one off.
Its worth replacing rings to get a good seal and have them hone in properly.
Pin circlips as well are worth replacing.

SOS pads work well for cleaning the top gasket material off the top and bottom of the block. Use hot soap and water and rinse the cylinders and get oil on them asap.

Try and clean up the engine before you take the block off.

The crud that gets into the middle cylinder studs usually falls into the case.

If you get some in there, its important to wash it out. It would be better if you could pick the stuff out or vacuum it first.

[phillipjohnw]

Mekanix you have been way too helpful.

I do have a really dumb question though. On the valve cover where the camshafts bearings are there are two flimsy looking come covers. I know that to get them off I need a Philips head screwdriver and I can reach the outside ones, but the center most ones I can't reach because the top end is in the way. I can get an offset screwdriver in the hole, but its not long enough to reach the screw. Am I doing something wrong or do I need a longer offset screwdriver? Is there a trick to getting them off or can I just tear them out? Do I really need them?

No more updates unless you count dropping the motor on my foot trying to move it. Luckily I was still in my work clothes and had steel toe boots on.

[wally]

Cool! Wonder how long those walls are gonna stay white?

[Mekanix]

Mekanix you have been way too helpful.

I do have a really dumb question though. On the valve cover where the camshafts bearings are there are two flimsy looking chrome covers. I know that to get them off I need a Philips head screwdriver and I can reach the outside ones, but the center most ones I can't reach because the top end is in the way. I can get an offset screwdriver in the hole, but its not long enough to reach the screw. Am I doing something wrong or do I need a longer offset screwdriver? Is there a trick to getting them off or can I just tear them out? Do I really need them?

No more updates unless you count dropping the motor on my foot trying to move it. Luckily I was still in my work clothes and had steel toe boots on.

You don't need to do it at all :-). Take all the bolts off and those covers stay with the valve cover.

http://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gs450-l-1983-usa_model16019/partslist/92448.html#results

[pete]

Yep, you don't need to remove them. Two philips heads hold each cam end cover on, and they're pretty much impossible to get off with the valve cover in place.

If you do take them off for whatever reason, use blue loctite on the screws when putting them back on.

[bwanna]

Hey, I just finished upgrading my 450 to a 500 and wanted to let you know that I didn't change anything other than the cylinder block (and little things). I didn't change the timing sprockets, wanted to see what would happen. So far, the bike is running very well with better pull at the lower RPMs... something I didnt' have with the 450.

More than happy to IM if you have any questions. I'm not an expert like others, just offering.

Also, regarding the pistons. I soaked them in carb dip (Gunk brand) and then carefully used a small flathead screwdriver to pickout the stubborn pieces of gunk where the rings fit. Also, IF you do use a wire brush (on your drill???) I suggest using a hard plastic and not a metal one. You don't want to mark up the pistons at all. I'm sure you know this already, so just emphasizing. I actually used 800 grit wet sandpaper to smooth out the top of the piston. Now with new rings I'm getting compression of 150psi on both cylinders.

Mekanix, I think I'll be relying on your seemingly infinite knowledge of the twins platform. Do you know if there is any extensive machining or special work that would need to go into using a gr650 top end? If I continue to use my 450 top why would I need to adjust the cams so they aren't 8° off?

I'm still debating on what to do with the rest of the build, suggestions are welcome. I do want to stay away from the cafe style that everyone and their brother does, also its the dreaded L model.

[phillipjohnw]

Thanks for all the help again.

Wally those walls better stay white or else I'm in deep trouble. That's actually our laundry room, I used it because it had much better lighting than the garage.

I actually feel a little stupid for asking about those covers. Before I logged on I looked at them again and sure enough there was nothing actually holding them to the head.

bwanna, thanks for sharing your results with the swap, do you have a build thread for it? It seems I'm doing what you did. I wouldn't mind some more low end, I like doing wheelies. Plus its easier/cheaper to switch a sprocket than to get the cam sprockets machined. I didn't use a wire wheel to clean it up, just some penetrant and a cheap little wire brush compliments of the US Navy.

To any of the actual engine builders would there be any noticeable gain from sanding the piston heads smooth? I know to leave the embossed arrow and the valve depression, but would removing the little bumps from casting with sandpaper be worthwhile? Any real world advantage or cosmetic waste of time?

[phillipjohnw]

On a slightly unrelated not, does anyone know of a good cheap petcock that will swap in hassle free? I've also been looking for a better set of forks that will swap straight into the neck bearings. I know there are lists, but besides the gsxr which I hear is shorter what do people usually swap in? I would actually like to go maybe an inch or so longer, I'm a big fan of ground clearance and lots of wheel travel. Its a jeep thing.

[Big Rich]

As far as petcocks go: stock or Pingel. The pingel takes a "little" bit of work to fit, and is slightly more expensive than stock (I think $20 more?).

Pretty much any GS front end is a bolt up job. I put a twin caliper GS650 front end on my GS450s. It's about 1.5" longer than the stock front end.

[phillipjohnw]

Thanks a lot. I'm waiting for more parts at this point. I have the engine torn to pieces, but I haven't gotten the gaskets yet. I had to wait on my tax refund to order them so now I'm waiting. On the other hand its giving me time to clean everything up.

[phillipjohnw]

Update after a couple weeks. The bike is still in pieces and I'm still waiting on parts. I got a couple of gaskets and ring sets that should have been here this week. I called bikebandit and apparently they were on back order or something. I scored a couple of gs500 coils off of ebay for $10 plus shipping. My right coil kicked the bucket right before I moved in Jan. Still debating on the rest of the bike. Does anyone know how much exhaust can be chopped off? I plan on running a shorter exhaust with a reverse megaphone, maybe.

Pete if you're still lurking around I really love your exhaust, any tips on doing it?