1980 GSX400 clutch pushrod oil seal question...

[Guest]

This may seem like a stupid question to most, but I'm still learning the anatomy of my motorcycle. My question is, is it possible to change the clutch pushrod seal without draining the oil out of the bike or will it make a hell of a mess when I pull out the seal?

[John Park]

There's no oil up that high in the motor. However, the seal may have a retaining lip that fits into a groove in the case. I'm not sure which [early] years had them, but if there is no seal retainer plate you may have a problem getting it out. If there's a plate you're probably okay, but if the seal is stubborn to remove you may have to do some surgery to get it out.

There's a thread or two on this, so look before you leap. Maybe someone who's more up on the subject can chime in. Take a pic of what you've got, if you're already in there.

The ones I've done, the seal almost fell out after the plate came off. If you've got the one piece pushrod, which I think this year had, you'll have to find a driver that fits over the rod to tap the new seal in.

[Oldspooneye]

Thanks for the confirmation about the oil level. That's what I thought but I figured it was easier to ask than to clean up a huge mess if I was wrong. Here's a pic of what I'm dealing with. I pretty sure it's one of the seals with the flange so it will probably be a pain in the ass to get it out. I've read through a bunch of the threads but if anyone has any new advice on the removal I would very much appreciate it.

IMG_1740.jpg

[Nessism]

The photo shows an abbreviated retaining plate to hold back the seal. That's better than some bikes that don't have that feature have so you have a fighting chance. One thing to note is that there is oil pressure that feeds down the pushrod passage and puts stress on the seal. You gotta get that seal well installed or it will pop out when in use.

[Oldspooneye]

Well it is a flanged seal and now I've managed to mangle it completely and still can't get it out. is splitting the case really the only sure fire way of getting this thing out? I have no idea how to do that. I'm in way over my head. advice?

[John Park]

The trick is to remove enough of the outer face that the rim can be folded in toward the center to reduce the diameter of the flange. All without doing irreparable damage to the cases.

Assuming that you have a one piece pushrod [?] taking the clutch cover off and removing the pressure plate and the pushrod would give you more unobstructed work access. Replacing with a two piece rod would be a good idea, especially if your rod looks worn at the seal area.

The good part is that if you ever have to go in there again it is a non event.

If the case is dinged up, be careful not to put huge amounts of bodge in there as it might run down into the oil feed jet and screwing up the oil flow to the shaft and bearings. As long as a scratch doesn't go deeply all the way across the face it won't result in a leak.

[Oldspooneye]

The trick is to remove enough of the outer face that the rim can be folded in toward the center to reduce the diameter of the flange. All without doing irreparable damage to the cases.

This is what I'm scared of. I forgot how soft the cases were. Hopefully I haven't f'ed them up already.

I do have a one piece pushrod. I'll have to drain out all the oil before I can take the clutch cover off right?

[John Park]

This is what I'm scared of. I forgot how soft the cases were. Hopefully I haven't f'ed them up already.

I do have a one piece pushrod. I'll have to drain out all the oil before I can take the clutch cover off right?

No, you may be able to lean the bike far enough left to get the cover off 'wet', but then you're in the same trouble on the other side. I'd drain it.

Keep us posted on how it turns out. Don't sweat the cases at this point; you're probably just fine. And there are fixes if you're not.

[Oldspooneye]

I managed to get the seal out without removing the pushrod. That way harder than I had hoped. Hopefully I haven't damaged anything too much. The seal is on order and probably won't show up for a week. Is there anything I can put around the seal to fill in any scratches I may have put in the case? I have this stuff. Would that work?

https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/ultra-series-gasket-makers/permatex-ultra-copper-maximum-temperature-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker/

[John Park]

Send a pic of what the hole looks like. Remember, you don't have to have it scratch free as long as there's no through channel for the oil to leak. Make sure the entry is burr free.

If you have to use something, I'd suggest massaging a gob of stiff grease into the oil jet that lives behind the flange. That way the sealant is less likely to plug the hole. A light coat of liquid will tend to squeeze into the scratches; excess will just go out the back.

I'm fond of Permatex aviation form-a-gasket. It seems to work well on things like the half moons or to tack a gasket in place.

[Oldspooneye]

It looks pretty rough.

IMG_1749.jpg

[John Park]

All it needs is a millimetre or two of unmolested metal at the base of the hole to seal. A very light coat of what I recommended or similar and drive it in should do it. It will slide into the gaps as you install; just clean off any 'insies' that are protruding to snag the seal surface.

The seal has a standoff section that keeps it from covering the oil feed hole. Don't drive it mercilessly. It will just tap in flush without much force but you'll need to get a suitable hollow tube as a driver given you can't remove the pushrod.

With luck you'll never have to see how rough it is again.

[Oldspooneye]

Thanks John. The seal is on order and should hopefully be in by the end of the week. I'll post an update once it is installed. I appreciate your help.

[Dostoy320]

This is the stuff I used on my seal to compensate for some scratches I put in the case during removal:

https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/gasket-sealants/permatex-form-a-gasket-no-2-sealant/

I haven't had any leaks in the several hundred miles since the repair.

You probably came across this while researching for your project, but here's my thread on the same process you're going through. (Not sure if it's of value)

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?246349-450-clutch-pushrod-seal-flanged

[Oldspooneye]

Yes I saw your thread. It's actually the one that gave me the confidence to tackle this myself and John's comments are what helped me through it when I was ready to smash the bike with a bat. Thanks to you both.

Hey, since we have such similar bikes would you mind if I just PM'ed you if I have any specific questions?