Clutch basket - what does it all mean Basil?

[Nessism]

The springs provide some cushion between the drive and driven portions of the hub. The stock springs tend to loosen and rattle, thus creating the classic clutch hub rattle noise. Also, guys that drag race and launch their bikes hard can flex and destroy the stock backing plate holding the clutch together thus the need for a heavy duty, thicker than stock, backing plate - held in place with rivets. I don't think the rivets loosen on their own, they are welded to the back plate after rebuilding the hub since that easier than trying to peen over new rivets.

[legaleli]

The springs provide some cushion between the drive and driven portions of the hub. The stock springs tend to loosen and rattle, thus creating the classic clutch hub rattle noise. Also, guys that drag race and launch their bikes hard can flex and destroy the stock backing plate holding the clutch together thus the need for a heavy duty, thicker than stock, backing plate - held in place with rivets. I don't think the rivets loosen on their own, they are welded to the back plate after rebuilding the hub since that easier than trying to peen over new rivets.

I'm pulling my drive portion of my hub (again) because I remember some movement of the "outer basket" when I forced it to move with gloved hands but the "big gear" to which is is riveted didn't move when the outer basket moved... just a few degrees but... if what I saw I actually saw then I've got a problem waiting to happen.

I'll have the results of that today.

I'm also pulling the carbs for cleaning, and removing the valve covers...

My girlfriend is out tonight with her girls, so I've got the garage and time to be in it!

This is major surgery for me... gonna need beer.

[legaleli]

Looks like trouble

RICK65CAT brought it to my attention - there should be no play between the outer basket and the drive gear.

I have confirmed a few minutes ago that when I grab the outer basket and turn it... with force... it moves about 2 degrees either way without the big gear to which it is attached moving.

Does this mean the outer basket has to come out, rivets popped, and welded? It seems that way to me...

For clarity when I wiggle #2 a degree or two right and left... #1 stays still.



I really need some help here. Is RICK65CAT correct? Just need confirmation...

[Rick65Cat]

Yes, the whole basket assembly has to come out. The welding is done on the back side where the rivets come through the gear.

That big honkin' center nut in the basket has to be removed. Best way is leave the bike in gear with the rear wheel somehow in contact with the ground. This helps prevent the clutch/engine turning over while you try to turn that nut. Theres also a big washer folded up against the nut I believe that has to be flattened so the nut will spin.
By Yumpin Yimminy DON'T FORGET to fold that washer back against the nut when you reinstall it.

I saw another post here a while back where the guy ground off the heads of the rivets and then when they were removed he chamfered the 3 holes in the gear so that with the rivets back in place he was able to get ultimate weld penetration. Dunno if you need to go that far. I've never taken one apart to examine the rivets for wear.

[legaleli]

Yes, the whole basket assembly has to come out. The welding is done on the back side where the rivets come through the gear.

That big honkin' center nut in the basket has to be removed. Best way is leave the bike in gear with the rear wheel somehow in contact with the ground. This helps prevent the clutch/engine turning over while you try to turn that nut. Theres also a big washer folded up against the nut I believe that has to be flattened so the nut will spin.
By Yumpin Yimminy DON'T FORGET to fold that washer back against the nut when you reinstall it.

I saw another post here a while back where the guy ground off the heads of the rivets and then when they were removed he chamfered the 3 holes in the gear so that with the rivets back in place he was able to get ultimate weld penetration. Dunno if you need to go that far. I've never taken one apart to examine the rivets for wear.

EXXXCELLENT!... this is my "bike for life". Updates to come. Thank you for the support.

[BadBillyB]

RICK65CAT brought it to my attention - there should be no play between the outer basket and the drive gear.

I have confirmed a few minutes ago that when I grab the outer basket and turn it... with force... it moves about 2 degrees either way without the big gear to which it is attached moving.

Does this mean the outer basket has to come out, rivets popped, and welded? It seems that way to me...

For clarity when I wiggle #2 a degree or two right and left... #1 stays still.

I really need some help here. Is RICK65CAT correct? Just need confirmation...

A couple degrees either way is normal. When you turn the basket "with force" you are compressing the damper springs. Did the basket rattle at idle ?? If not I wouldn't bother reinforcing it. It's a street bike......Billy

[legaleli]

NOW I'm confused...

In the picture below (used as an example of the housing - not the specific example, but generally for all baskets) should there be any movement between the gear and the round housing to which it is attached (also in picture), or should they be connected by a non moving rivet/weld?

[chef1366]

NOW I'm confused...

In the picture below (used as an example of the housing - not the specific example, but generally for all baskets) should there be any movement between the gear and the round housing to which it is attached (also in picture), or should they be connected by a non moving rivet/weld?

No
.......................

[legaleli]

No
.......................

OK... perfect... I need to fix it and, CHEF1366, many thanks.

[legaleli]

Wtf?

ok... so I brought my client "basket" (below) up to the machine shop and explain to the guy whats going on... that the basket and the backing plate move independently of each other and that it's probably the rivets slaking off a bit... I showed him that when I hold on to the aluminum "basket" and grip the drive gear I can move the drive gear without the basket moving... about 1 or 2 millimeters.

He repeats what I did on his own and them makes the following observation:

YES the drive gear moves 1 or 2 millimeters without the basket moving...

BUT...

The backing plate moves with the basket and the drive gear is the part that has some play in it. In other words when I grip #1 and move the basket, the basket and #2 move together... the rivets are perfectly fine and everything is intact.. BUT... #1... the big gear isn't attached directly to the backing plate.

Is this normal?

Please help me

[legaleli]

Just answered my own question....

Wow... I wish I had a friction surface like a short carpet in my garage... I would have solved my own problem!

The movement IS normal... those little springs in the back load up when the big gear moves... I now understand more fully the purpose of those springs... the main gear actually DOES move independently of the basket the amount that those springs can load! Very interesting.

[posplayr]

Wow... I wish I had a friction surface like a short carpet in my garage... I would have solved my own problem!

The movement IS normal... those little springs in the back load up when the big gear moves... I now understand more fully the purpose of those springs... the main gear actually DOES move independently of the basket the amount that those springs can load! Very interesting.

Yes the clutch is designed to transfer torque/force through the springs.

The engine crank drives the large gear which rotates relative to the clutch basket to load up the springs. The springs push on the clucth basket. The basket transmits power to the transmission. So yes the units rotate. The standard upgrade is to replace the backing plate that holds the springs and which has the welded rivets. Is is the thin backing plate that is replaced with a much thicker one as well as replacing/shiming the springs which stops rattle.

look near the bottom of the page:

http://gszone.biz/clutches.html

[Skateguy50]

I posted a thread a bit back about some slippage at higher speeds, and was told to start with the clutch springs. I got my new springs in and think I found the issue.

Problem with forums and questions is the part of the story that sometimes is most relavent is left out cause the poster doesnt think its important, well a few weeks back I changed my bars to Daytona bars and everything seemed cool. But looking back it started to act up soon after that, well the part of the cable you tighten to keep it from moving slipped and when the clutch lever was released it wasnt getting any slack and didnt fully release the clutch. Not enough to notice at slow speeds but it was the source of my higher speed issues.

If I did out the gasket for the clutch I will probably put in the new springs since I spent the $8 on them. They will do more good stored on the bike than in a drawer.

[Rick65Cat]

NOW I'm confused...

In the picture below (used as an example of the housing - not the specific example, but generally for all baskets) should there be any movement between the gear and the round housing to which it is attached (also in picture), or should they be connected by a non moving rivet/weld?

Hmmm....so if this example in the pic is the same as your basket and the gear ring is independent of the backing plate....why is it welded?

Thats weird....I never knew the gear was seperate from the backing plate. It sure didn't seem that way on my '78 1000.

[Big Jay]

The rivets go thru the aluminum basket, thru the gear, which has slots to allow the gear to move, then thru the back plate. We then weld the rivets which makes the basket and back plate as one piece with the gear between then able to move.