shaft vr. chain

[Kerry]

Cliff, that horse is only sleeping. A few more taps should wake it up...

[fastpakr]

Use this stuff on your spine gear, Honda Moly 60 paste:

If the Honda moly paste is hard to find locally or you don't feel like mail ordering, there is another option. Loctite sells moly paste (60-100% moly) in several forms including aerosol. Around here, Grainger seems to keep it in stock. Similar price to Honda by weight.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/search.shtml?searchQuery=molybdenum+paste&op=search&Ntt=molybdenum+paste&N=0&sst=subset

[bwringer]

If the Honda moly paste is hard to find locally or you don't feel like mail ordering, there is another option. Loctite sells moly paste (60-100% moly) in several forms including aerosol. Around here, Grainger seems to keep it in stock. Similar price to Honda by weight.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...N=0&sst=subset

Hey, that's a great find! Thanks!

McMaster-Carr doesn't have this. In fact, it appears that Dow-Corning "MolyKote" products (which always seem to pop up when you're looking for moly paste) don't actually contain any molybdenum. Yeesh.

[deyo27]

True, but he said he is new to
motorcycles, so probably has never even known that there is a debate.

Sounded like he was asking for an opinion on which one to get next and some possible reasons why.

Yes I am new sorry I dident mean to cause any problems.

[koolaid_kid]

WOO HOO, ANOTHER SHAFT VS. CHAIN DEBATE!

It's been a year or more since we did this one. Brian, LMK when I can chime in.
Brian, have you looked for that paste at Tractor Supply Company? That is where I get my waterproof marine grease for all my zerk fittings and anything else that requires grease, like when repacking bearings and such.

Deyo27, you have not caused any problems. We have a lot of fun with this subject and almost all of us are adults here.

[emjay]

It's good to see no one holding back!

... molybdenum ...

Say that 3 time fast.

[koolaid_kid]

Isn't that a quote from 'Blazing Saddles'?

IMHO, they both have their advantages and disadvantages.
Shaft is quiet and low maintenance, but is heavy and consumes power.
Chain is lighter and provides more power, but is noisier and high maintenance.
Pick your poison, both work.
In the old days, pre-GS, shafts had a further problem, torque. When the rider nailed the throttle, the bike tended to lay down on one side. So if you were leaned heavy into a turn on that side, and nailed the throttle coming out of the turn, you had issues. But the GS models eliminated that problem completely.
I chose more power, less weight and more performance at the sacrifice of high maintenance. I am about to go on a rally, and the last thing I am going to do before I leave is clean and lube the chain. The last thing the shaft riders are going to do is turn off the tv.

[Steve]

In the old days, pre-GS, shafts had a further problem, torque. When the rider nailed the throttle, the bike tended to lay down on one side. So if you were leaned heavy into a turn on that side, and nailed the throttle coming out of the turn, you had issues. But the GS models eliminated that problem completely.

Now THAT is something new to me.

Yes, there were issues, but not quite like you have described them. BMWs, with their in-line crank wold torque a little if you revved the bike in neutral while sitting still. Never really noticed it while moving. Honda GoldWings and CX500s (and 650s) also had in-line cranks, but they ran the alternator and gearbox in the opposite direction to counteract the torque effect.

I think what you are trying to warn about is what is known as "shaft jacking" or the effect that the shaft has on the rear wheel. With a chain, when you nail the throttle, it pulls on the top of the chain, which actually raises the wheel a bit. This makes the bike go a bit lower. Conversely, when you let off the throttle, the wheel is no longer pulled up, so the wheel goes down and the rear of the bike goes up. If you are leaned over in a corner and start dragging some parts, letting off the throttle will get you just a bit of clearance.

With a shaft drive, the opposite is usually true. Twisting the throttle will push the rear wheel down, raising the rear of the bike. This means that if you start dragging in a corner, the correct action is to add some throttle and also feather the brakes a bit to keep speed in check.

This shaft jacking was very profound on Yamahas and Kawasakis. Suzuki was the last one to introduce a shaft-driven bike and they somehow got it right; there is virtually none of that on any of the ones I have ridden.

.

[koolaid_kid]

Perhaps that is what it was. I was not aware that it still exists, it seems like the other manufacturers should have taken from Suzuki's accomplishments. I guess Yamaha and Kawasaki riders still get the shaft.

[deyo27]

So how much power will the shaft rob? To me it seems like it would be stronger. Why don't they make the ring and pinion changeable like in a truck or car or do they or do they to the new ones?

[bellucci]

My last shaft bike ran 9.27 et at 149 mph... that was 20 years ago... Turbo Yamaha 1100... There is always more power to be had...

[Planecrazy]

So how much power will the shaft rob?

On a stock GS comparatively there is actually VERY little difference between a chain driven bike and a shaftie. My fully loaded GS1100G never had any trouble keeping up with either Bwringer's stripped down 850G or Joe Nardy's clean 1100E (same year as my "G") when we rode together in the "spirited group" in the twisties.

Typically, Joe can outaccelerate me off the line (which one would expect from a 16-valve performance 1100 versus my 8-valve "cruiser") but the difference was never significant enough to make any real difference. Despite the both of them being more experienced riders than me I never had to work too hard to "run with the big boys," hehe!

Bottom Line: Unless you are the kind of person who must squeeze EVERY last ounce of performance from your bike you won't feel like you're missing out in any way on a GS shaftie. You'll only appreciate the fact that you don't EVER have to mess with a chain.

I've owned both, and while it's not the biggest deal in the world to adjust and maintain a chain I simply prefer not having to mess with my driveline at all, save a simple "check and lubricate" procedure on the splines whenever the wheel is off the bike. Every "once in a blue moon" (when the factory calls for it) I'll double check/change the fluids and inspect the drive shaft, etc. When's the last time any of you did any work on your car/truck/suv drive shafts/rear diffs? ... EXACTLY!

Regards,

[Steve]

When's the last time any of you did any work on your car/truck/suv drive shafts/rear diffs? ... EXACTLY!

I do mine every 100,000 miles, whether they need it or not.

.

[Dan Ruddock]

Ya da, Ya da, Ya da. I have ridden and owned both chain and shaft. For me the chain bike is just plain more fun to ride. For me the fun factor out weighs all else. I ride a motorcycle because it is fun and not because I can say I don't have much maintenance.

The time I spend on my chain is no big deal. I will never buy another shaft bike unless I plan to flip it.

Maybe it is just the ride I have become used to and all else just feels wrong, so for me it's just my preference and if a shaft feels good to you, enjoy. Dan

[fnkvn]

As a new GS owner, I can tell you that a shaft drive was totally foreign to me. I've been riding motorcycles for over 30 years, and all have been chain final drive, or belt. My big concern, when researching the bikes, was reliability: I didn't want to get stuck with a bike that was prone to failure or needed parts replaced that were no longer available.

Maybe there should be some kind of sticky thread, so newbies like me could find out that these shaft drive GS's are not prone to troubles?