Shifting to neutral - only possible at stops?

[MikeJ]

My new-to-me 78 GS550 seems to be in fine running shape now except for one issue I've never seen on any other brand - it only lets me shift into neutral while at a full stop. Even while coasting at low speed, as in approaching a stop, a downshift from 2nd goes directly to 1st, and an upshift from 1st goes directly to 2nd. No green light illuminated, no "feel" of neutral at the shift lever (you know what I mean). Once at a stop, it will easily shift from 1st to neutral, then from neutral to 2nd, or vice versa. (While at a stop, this is similar to the feel of the Kawasaki "positive neutral finder" transmission which will _not_ let you shift to 1st from 2nd while at a stop, or vice versa, without going thru neutral in 2 steps - but unlike the GS, the Kawa lets me shift from 2nd directly to neutral while still coasting to a stop)

Is this the way the GS line was designed? It's not a big deal, and actually now I think about it may be a good safety feature (won't let you shift to neutral and freewheel it while you're still rolling, so you don't give up engine-braking rear wheel traction) but I just want to make sure it doesn't portend deeper problems later with the clutch/transmission

Thanx for any help, and Ride safe...

Mike Jacobs
Columbia, MD
1985 Honda VF700S Sabre
1984 Moto Guzzi V65SP
1982 Yamaha XZ550 Vision
1996 Kawasaki EX250 Ninja
1978 Suzuki GS550

[FormerBMWguy]

My 850L seemed to consistently do the same thing. Changing the oil to the forum-recommended 15W-40 Rotella Diesel oil helped, and once I rode the bike for awhile the problem seemed to rectify itself. Since the bike had sat for several (6) years, I just assume the clutch disks were sticking together and are now loosening up. Make sure your cable is properly adjusted and is fully disengaging the clutch.

[MikeJ]

My 850L seemed to consistently do the same thing. Changing the oil to the forum-recommended 15W-40 Rotella Diesel oil helped, and once I rode the bike for awhile the problem seemed to rectify itself. Since the bike had sat for several (6) years, I just assume the clutch disks were sticking together and are now loosening up. Make sure your cable is properly adjusted and is fully disengaging the clutch.

Thanks for the hint, perhaps that's all it is with mine too - it had sat for about a year before I bought it, and I've only been riding it less than a week.

Time cures all ills, yes? And, lots and lots of riding time.

MikeJ

[850 Combat]

I agree. Clutch drag causes that. I switched from Castrol to Rotella, and both drag and slip improved.

Make sure that there isn't too much free play in the clutch cable, too.

[corporalagarn]

when i got my bike, i'd bet the oil hadn't been changed in years. changed it immediately, and had trouble finding neutral at all, even when stopped. i ran some sea foam through the oil, and changed the oil again. things got better. i could sometimes find neutral.

ran the process one more time, and the problem largely cleared up. now, whenever i am about to change the oil, i put some sea foam in, run it for 50 miles or so, then put fresh oil in.

[DanTheMan]

Why would you want to shift to neutral and coast to a stop???? It's much safer to shift to first and keep it in first while stopped so you can move the bike quickly if in danger from someone approaching from the rear that might make a motorcycle sandwich out of you.
Anyway, the other folks told you what is probably correct, you've got old, dirty oil or had the same, causing your clutch plates to stick together.

[JEEPRUSTY]

Dan is right keep it in gear except for when parking it and then pop it in neutral when its powered off.

[MikeJ]

when i got my bike, i'd bet the oil hadn't been changed in years. changed it immediately, and had trouble finding neutral at all, even when stopped. i ran some sea foam through the oil, and changed the oil again. things got better. i could sometimes find neutral.

ran the process one more time, and the problem largely cleared up. now, whenever i am about to change the oil, i put some sea foam in, run it for 50 miles or so, then put fresh oil in.

I've never heard of putting SeaFoam into the OIL. I thought it was a GAS treatment, to get rid of water and ethanol gunk. Wouldn't putting it in the oil dilute its lubricating properties detrimentally? Maybe for a quick engine-flush job, to be immediately replaced by real oil, I would consider using some chemical product, but not while actually _riding_ it with anything but 100% oil in the crankcase.

What do others think?

MikeJ

[MikeJ]

Why would you want to shift to neutral and coast to a stop???? It's much safer to shift to first and keep it in first while stopped so you can move the bike quickly if in danger from someone approaching from the rear that might make a motorcycle sandwich out of you.

Yeah, I agree, that's why I thought this might be a safety feature built into the GS line. I just knew that my other bikes _let_ me shift into neutral while still rolling, if I wanted to. I just wanted to make sure this wasn't some more serious mechanical glitch I needed to look out for.

Anyway, the other folks told you what is probably correct, you've got old, dirty oil or had the same, causing your clutch plates to stick together.

Got it. And, with a bit of use, her clutch does seem to be loosening up a bit, not as grabby at initial launch as it was at first, and I can now easily downshift from 2nd to neutral and (less easily, not always) upshift from 1st to neutral, while rolling. There still is some grab at neutral, though, since I can have her up on the centerstand, in neutral with the engine running, and the rear wheel will in fact spin merrily.

I have only put about 150 miles on her so far, for a few shakedown trips around town and out into the countryside, since purchase a couple weeks ago, and each trip the clutch seems to loosen up more, so, I'm confident now that's all it is. Filled her up yesterday, even though the tank hadn't gone on reserve yet, just to see what kind of mileage I had been getting, and it took 3.1 gallons (about 50 miles/gal). At the next oil change (which I plan to do at the next gas fill-up in about another 200 miles, when she will tick over to 14,000 miles on the odo) I do plan to go with the Rotella 15-40 diesel oil as others have recommended, and I plan to start using that in all my bikes now as a better emulator of the old-fashioned, pre-catalyst-era oils our old bikes were made to use back in the 1970s and 1980's.

Mike J

[Sparky]

I've never heard of putting SeaFoam into the OIL. I thought it was a GAS treatment, to get rid of water and ethanol gunk. Wouldn't putting it in the oil dilute its lubricating properties detrimentally? Maybe for a quick engine-flush job, to be immediately replaced by real oil, I would consider using some chemical product, but not while actually _riding_ it with anything but 100% oil in the crankcase.

What do others think?

MikeJ

Seafoam is for oil too. Its an additive, not a oil replacment. Ive used it in gas, diesel, and oil, you can pour it right in, the instructions are on the can.

I noticed that new oil made my bike easier to shift as well as find neutral. I dont know about shifting to neutral while rolling, never needed to do that.

[corporalagarn]

I've never heard of putting SeaFoam into the OIL. I thought it was a GAS treatment, to get rid of water and ethanol gunk. Wouldn't putting it in the oil dilute its lubricating properties detrimentally? Maybe for a quick engine-flush job, to be immediately replaced by real oil, I would consider using some chemical product, but not while actually _riding_ it with anything but 100% oil in the crankcase.

What do others think?

MikeJ

one member, i forget who, said he was in contact with sea foam technical people, who said it was ok for a wet clutch. nonetheless, i and quite a few others have cleared up clutch issues with sea foam and a new oil change.

and of course, i think i agree with you to a certain extent...that is why when i put the sea foam in, i ride for maybe 50 miles tops. then change it out to new oil.

[Doug B.]

I've never heard of putting SeaFoam into the OIL. I thought it was a GAS treatment, to get rid of water and ethanol gunk. Wouldn't putting it in the oil dilute its lubricating properties detrimentally? Maybe for a quick engine-flush job, to be immediately replaced by real oil, I would consider using some chemical product, but not while actually _riding_ it with anything but 100% oil in the crankcase.

What do others think?

MikeJ

Yep, it's good in oil too.. I wouldn't run one very hard with it in the oil, no redline shifts or anything.. but tooling around for the last lil bit before changing the oil will work wonders degumming everything.

I've also used it in automatic transmissions with good results.

Wow, didn't see this was 2 years old, was searching to try and confirm / deny something.

[tkent02]

Why would you want to shift to neutral and coast to a stop???? It's much safer to shift to first and keep it in first while stopped so you can move the bike quickly if in danger from someone approaching from the rear that might make a motorcycle sandwich out of you.
.

That is a technique that some use, some don't. Definitely not a design feature.
I usually prefer to keep my eyes in the mirror, watch the other traffic all around me, instead of keeping the bike in gear. In most cases it makes no sense as I can put it in gear in an instant while I am deciding whether or not I need to move. It takes no time.
Always the bike is pointed at an open space. Whatever works for you.

Usually with clutch problems it's easier to get neutral before coming to a stop, and harder after stopping. I don't think that is your problem.

I would look at the neutral stopper spring, I bet it's too weak to do it's job, or maybe the stopper itself is shot. It is a little plunger which goes into an indentation in the shift drum to hold it in the neutral position, the spring pushes it into the detent.
Easy to fix, check it at the next oil change.

Parts 17 - 20 in this diagram.

http://www.boulevardsuzuki.com/fiche_image_popup.asp?fveh=2106&section=92950&year=1977&make=SUZUKI&category=Motorcycles&dc=2763&name=GEAR+SHIFTING

[Kaiser Sosei]

I would hope the OP solved the problem by now.