head gasket leak

[Nessism]

Those egg shaped O-rings are REQUIRED, and you are sure to have a leak if you didn't install them. They fit in a recess area on the crankcase, inside a cutout in the base gasket. The recess is around the outboard rear cylinder studs - where the oil travels up to the cylinder head. Regarding the corner seals, I doubt your head gasket uses those. Many of the newer head gaskets have those seals built in, instead of using separate pieces.

[shibby_cbs]

Those egg shaped O-rings are REQUIRED, and you are sure to have a leak if you didn't install them. They fit in a recess area on the crankcase, inside a cutout in the base gasket. The recess is around the outboard rear cylinder studs - where the oil travels up to the cylinder head. Regarding the corner seals, I doubt your head gasket uses those. Many of the newer head gaskets have those seals built in, instead of using separate pieces.

thats what i figured...weird that there wasnt any orings installed when i took apart the bike before and i know for a fact there isnt even any holes in the gasket for them...the gasket just lays over top of the ports...whats goin on here...was i supposed to cut them out myself...im confused/concernd

and as far as the corner seals go im pretty sure the gasket had em built in

[DanTheMan]

Those egg shaped O-rings are REQUIRED, and you are sure to have a leak if you didn't install them. They fit in a recess area on the crankcase, inside a cutout in the base gasket. The recess is around the outboard rear cylinder studs - where the oil travels up to the cylinder head. Regarding the corner seals, I doubt your head gasket uses those. Many of the newer head gaskets have those seals built in, instead of using separate pieces.

My Vesrah head gasket didn't have them built in and the ones they provided were wrong. I scrounged around in my shop until I found some copper crush washers and o-rings that fit and they've been working so far. The oil leak on mine came from using the sorry cam cover gasket out of the Vesrah kit, I replaced that with one from Real Gaskets and my engine's been leak free ever since. It only took me close to three years to get the Real Gasket and get rid of the annoying oil leak, but I did that when I did the valve shims this last time.

[shibby_cbs]

well it seems that in the entire city of columbus there is not one suzuki dealer...i guess my next option is the web....sigh...i really wanted to have this thing done by friday for the hour trip back to my home town...its lookin less and less likely

[chef1366]

try mrcycles.com

[shibby_cbs]

try mrcycles.com

seems they dont have it... i found it at suzukipartshouse.com for a pretty good price but they only offer ground shipping or pickup

[Suzuki_Don]

If you read Ed's (Waterman) post correctly it states washers not seals. And I think he is talking about the copper crush washers that go directly under the head acorn nuts.

Also on the subject of egg shape "O" rings, they sit under the base gasket on the 650 motor and there is no cutout in the base gasket for them. But they seal between the base gasket and the crankcase and the oil is forced up the cavity around the head studs to the top end. The hole in the base gasket is round and over size, but not oval shaped as on the 550 motor. I elongated the hole partially to allow more oil to flow to the cylinder head. I have no leaks so far.

[shibby_cbs]

If you read Ed's (Waterman) post correctly it states washers not seals. And I think he is talking about the copper crush washers that go directly under the head acorn nuts.

Also on the subject of egg shape "O" rings, they sit under the base gasket on the 650 motor and there is no cutout in the base gasket for them. But they seal between the base gasket and the crankcase and the oil is forced up the cavity around the head studs to the top end. The hole in the base gasket is round and over size, but not oval shaped as on the 550 motor. I elongated the hole partially to allow more oil to flow to the cylinder head. I have no leaks so far.

yes i have the copper crush washers installed...but at this point it dosnt really matter...the bike is gonna have to be completly dissasembled for the umteenth time and another lump of money is gonna have to be spent on something i have already bought once before...i really hope i can get some kind of refund on the gasket kit i purchased from those guys but im not holdin my breath

[Nessism]

Sorry for my bad advice. I've never torn down a 650 before.

The parts fishe doesn't show any O-rings that go on the base gasket for the 650G (shaft) but they do for the chain drive E model. A bit strange...but the engines are different so maybe not.

Neither model shows seals for the studs supplementing the head gasket. I doubt your gasket kit requires them.

Regarding the problem at hand, my guess is the base gasket crushed down, head gasket too, and when you put a wrench on the stud nuts you will find them dead loose. Try torquing them back down to spec and see if the leak abates. You are most likely going to have attack the problem fairly soon but maybe not right away.

[shibby_cbs]

Sorry for my bad advice. I've never torn down a 650 before.

The parts fishe doesn't show any O-rings that go on the base gasket for the 650G (shaft) but they do for the chain drive E model. A bit strange...but the engines are different so maybe not.

Neither model shows seals for the studs supplementing the head gasket. I doubt your gasket kit requires them.

Regarding the problem at hand, my guess is the base gasket crushed down, head gasket too, and when you put a wrench on the stud nuts you will find them dead loose. Try torquing them back down to spec and see if the leak abates. You are most likely going to have attack the problem fairly soon but maybe not right away.

i went to retorque the nuts last night and they were still within spec...i am going to take them all completly loose tonight and retorque them to spec and maybe a little over to see if anything changes...base gasket seems fine and dandy but i am concernd about the o-rings...if i do need them running the bike would risk ruining the cams but if i dont them im fine....until i know for sure i dont feel good about running the bike....is there any way to test if the oil is flowing correctly to the head?...does anybody know for sure if my particular bike requires the o-rings?...and hey dont worry about missin a little bit on the advice...nobody knows everything...thanks for takin the time to help tho...i wanna get on this thing and ride sooooooo bad

[Suzuki_Don]

OK. "MY BAD",

As the "E" and "G" motors have different oil pumps, they also have different oiling systems. Your "G" model does NOT require the egg shape "O" rings. The "G" has a high pressure oil pump and the "E" has a high volume oil pump. Because of the high pressure oil pump the oil will have no trouble getting up to the cams and valves.

Sorry for my misinformation. I got a bit confused because I used a "G" gasket set on my 550/650 conversion and thought both motors had the egg shape "O" ring. Although if you had put them in by mistake I'm sure they would not have caused a problem.

BTW both the "G" and the "E" use the same base gasket, only the "O" ring is different.

If you want to check if oil is getting to the top end just remove your tacho cable while the motor is running, but make sure you are wearing "old" clothes. I found this out when I started my motor after the complete rebuild after 2 1/2 years off the road. I knew I would forget something in my eagerness to hear it run again.

[shibby_cbs]

OK. "MY BAD",

As the "E" and "G" motors have different oil pumps, they also have different oiling systems. Your "G" model does NOT require the egg shape "O" rings. The "G" has a high pressure oil pump and the "E" has a high volume oil pump. Because of the high pressure oil pump the oil will have no trouble getting up to the cams and valves.

Sorry for my misinformation. I got a bit confused because I used a "G" gasket set on my 550/650 conversion and thought both motors had the egg shape "O" ring. Although if you had put them in by mistake I'm sure they would not have caused a problem.

BTW both the "G" and the "E" use the same base gasket, only the "O" ring is different.

If you want to check if oil is getting to the top end just remove your tacho cable while the motor is running, but make sure you are wearing "old" clothes. I found this out when I started my motor after the complete rebuild after 2 1/2 years off the road. I knew I would forget something in my eagerness to hear it run again.

so you are sayin that if i disconnect the tac cable and start the motor oil should come squirtin out?...maybe somethin like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bm7utZR4Yo

and as far as running the bike as is in the current condition is it ok?...what am i risking if anything

[Suzuki_Don]

so you are sayin that if i disconnect the tac cable and start the motor oil should come squirtin out?...maybe somethin like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bm7utZR4Yo

and as far as running the bike as is in the current condition is it ok?...what am i risking if anything

It won't be quite as bad as that video, as excess oil will run back down the cam chain tunnel. It will just spray out the front of the valve cover a bit. As another option, just take out the 16 or 17 x 6mm bolts holding the valve cover in place and remove the valve cover (only 10 mins. work) and you will see all the cavities in the top of the head filled up with oil, especially the ones at either end of the exhaust camshaft, they will be full to overflowing with oil if everything is working as it should.

Do as Ed said about loosening, then tightening the head nuts to the torque he suggested and go ride it and see if it still leaks. You will not do any harm.

[shibby_cbs]

i deffinately will do that...but tomorrow....you guys said it should be ok to take her out and thats exactly what i did...took her for a 20 min cruise down a back road at 55 and it was great...it gave me a whole new motivation for this bike...now i know why i am working so hard on this thing...when i pulled back in the garage i took a look at the gasket again and it looked the same...a little bubbling in a couple spots but nothing major.

[jtrip]

im having the same problem with my 1980 gs850gl leaking too is the torquing the same in mine as well anyone know or know what mine needs to be torqed too ??