Clutch not engaging or disengaging

[dluszcz]

OK Billy. I will do what you suggest when I get the tank put on and some gas in it to get it going.

And, I didn't know that the clutch cable came with a bolt and cotter pin. This is how it was when I bought the bike with the original engine. All I did was transfer the cable. I have already loosened the bolt so that the cable doesn't bow. Yes, it was tight.

Lastly, just to make sure I understand you correctly, on the top of the engine where the cable screws in, I should back this off to the half way point? I understand the 90 degree angle thing and completely forgot that when I was messing with getting the lever on the right tooth.

I'm completely lost on the gap at the front of the lever though. Or maybe I'm not. When I pull the handlebar lever, it should not hit the handlebar, correct? Presently, the handlebar lever does hit the grip.

Thanks to all for your help. This is the 1st time I've adjusted a clutch and I honestly thought it was a bit simpler with all the information I found. I guess just being a noobie to rebuilding bikes, I have to fumble through everything once before I completely understand exactly what I am doing.

 

[big bazzer]

clutch probs

clutch probs

sounds like the clutch has been getting hot , thats why the plates could be welded together, the other thing to look for is the steelys darkened and blued ,mine has just done the same thing , although the wear on the plates is minimal, thinkin i got the adjustment wrong on the cable, before that the clutch was slipping at high revs, could be weak pressure plate springs tho

 

[dluszcz]

Possible solution to my problem. I still cannot get the clutch to disengage.

When I put the bike in 1st gear, the tire doesn't rotate, as it shouldn't. But, when I pull the clutch, it still stays in gear and the tire does not rotate freely.

I had a friend come over for some advice. We went through it all again. He thought that the way I ran the cable was wrong. So, he corrected that.

The clutch is still not disengaging. The only thing left to check is my tightening of the clutch spring bolts. He thinks that I tightened the clutch spring bolts too tight and when I pull the clutch in, I'm moving the whole assembly, thus, the engine is still engaged.

Now, my question is this. In a previous post, I was told that I should torque it to 80 inch pounds, which converts to 6.6667 foot pounds. I have already sheared off one bolt by using my torque wrench set at 9 lbs and do not want to do that again. On BassCliff's website, the torque specs for the clutch spring bolts is 8-9.5 lb ft. As I already know, that is way too tight.

How snug is snug? Is there a way to check this without an inch pounds torque wrench?

I'm concerned that I will not tighten the bolts enough and the bolts will loosen. My friend says that the springs should provide enough pressure so that they do not loosen. It never occurred to me that tightening the spring bolts too tight could cause the clutch to not disengage.

I've never rebuilt a clutch before and since I know that I have a tendency to overtighten everything, this could very well be the problem.

If anyone reading this can confirm, deny, or offer any other ideas, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Nessism]

The problem is NOT how tight you made the clutch spring bolts unless you sheared them off. I haven't read though this entire thread but I suggest you pull the clutch back apart and start fresh.

 

[BadBillyB]

Still haven't sorted this out yet....Have you tried both sets of clutch plates ??...Clutch plates have a tendency to get real sticky or gummy if you let them sit in a non running bike for some time....As you said in your first post, the plates were all stuck together and you cleaned them, all except for the friction plates. These are the ones that get sticky. With everything installed and adjusted right, sticky plates will not allow the clutch to properly release. I dont know of any tried method of cleaning them up to remedy the stickiness....My 78 GS1000 had this problem when I bought it. I replaced the frictions with OEM Suzuki plates and it now works flawlessly. The steel plates also have to be free of warping, as this can cause release problems also. Clean them real good and stack them one on top of the other. Hold them up to a light and see if you can see daylight between them. The steels have a smooth side and a sharp side as they are stamped. Put them all facing the same direction while checking. I would bet that all you need is new clutch plates....And no, dont soak them in oil before installing, just put a light film on them as they are going in......Billy

 

[dluszcz]

I'll pull the clutch apart again. I know the plates are not warped. I placed each plate down on a large door length mirror as I removed them from the clutch basket.

The fibers are OEM from the original engine. They were not gummed up or tacky in any way.

Other people I have talked to instructed me to dip each plate in oil and then place in the clutch basket. I did that with all the steel plates and the fibers.

When I take them apart again, I'm going to barely tighten them. I do not have access to a inch lb torque wrench and if barely tightening them allows the clutch to disengage, I'll keep slightly tightening until the clutch no longer disengages and then I will back each bolt up a little bit.

Probably won't get to that til this upcoming weekend. I will update when I get around to tearing the clutch apart again.

If anyone else has any other ideas or something else to try, I'll definitely listen. My goal is to get it roadworthy before I put it away for the winter.

 

[blowerbike]

I'll pull the clutch apart again. I know the plates are not warped. I placed each plate down on a large door length mirror as I removed them from the clutch basket.

The fibers are OEM from the original engine. They were not gummed up or tacky in any way.

Other people I have talked to instructed me to dip each plate in oil and then place in the clutch basket. I did that with all the steel plates and the fibers.

When I take them apart again, I'm going to barely tighten them. I do not have access to a inch lb torque wrench and if barely tightening them allows the clutch to disengage, I'll keep slightly tightening until the clutch no longer disengages and then I will back each bolt up a little bit.

Probably won't get to that til this upcoming weekend. I will update when I get around to tearing the clutch apart again.

If anyone else has any other ideas or something else to try, I'll definitely listen. My goal is to get it roadworthy before I put it away for the winter.

you are tightening against a shoulder...TIGHTEN THESE BOLTS OR THEY WILL FALL OUT AND GET HUNG UP IN SHlT!
this area is not your problem and i always soak my fibers..always have with out any problems... different strokes for different folks ya know.
you are missing something here..
i wish you was close and i'd fix this thing and be done.
i'm not sure what to offer now.

 

[tom203]

you are tightening against a shoulder...TIGHTEN THESE BOLTS OR THEY WILL FALL OUT AND GET HUNG UP IN SHlT!
this area is not your problem and i always soak my fibers..always have with out any problems... different strokes for different folks ya know.
you are missing something here..
i wish you was close and i'd fix this thing and be done.
i'm not sure what to offer now.

Maybe you should learn to express yourself more forcefully!

 

[blowerbike]

Maybe you should learn to express yourself more forcefully!

ok tom,
i will work on that

but seriously..
maybe some pictures of the clutch springs/other components???
this really shouldn't be that much of a pain unless someones been in it before and swapped/mixed up some of the assembly order.

 

[dluszcz]

Got it apart again. The steels are good. No light between them and they lay flat on the mirror still.

However, when I took the bolts and springs out and removed the pressure disc but left the fibers and steel plates in, I had a lot of friction when turning the tire with it in 1st gear. However, this could be because I didn't have the steels all facing the same way according to the way they were stamped. I can see where 1 side is slightly rounded and the other is a straight edge. Not sure this would make a difference but I wouldn't have thought to look that closely if someone didn't say that in a previous reply here.

When I take all the plates out, there is way less friction and the tire moves freely while the clutch basket turns.

I'm thinking I need new plates. Since the steels appear to be OK, can I get away with just buying OEM fibers? Buying all 7 steels and 8 fibers is going to cost almost $220.

However, I've decided to try to clean the plates again. Only this time I sprayed the steels and fibers with the brake cleaner. Made a huge difference on the fibers. The steels cleaned up just like they did the 1st time.

I figured that I probably have to buy new fibers anyway so I may as well try this. Going to soak all the plates again, but this time I'm going to use the right oil. Didn't know that I had to have 10W40 JASO MA rated oil until I did a lot more digging and searching of the forums.

Any ideas on where I may be able to buy OEM plates cheaper than from the dealership, just in case cleaning them doesn't work? Google hasn't turned up much and eBay has aftermarket and I've read to stay away from anything except OEM.

Also, if this doesn't work, I'll take some pics and post those as well. If I need new plates, those will have to wait. Hopefully, when I get the right oil and put it all back together, the clutch will disengage.

 

[BadBillyB]

Hey, now your on the right track. Put the steels in with the smooth side facing out. Put the friction plates in dry. They will be fed oil when the motor starts up. If the steels are not warped or severely discolored (from slipping) they will be fine......Billy

 

[dluszcz]

Today, had a buddy come over to check my work.

Put the steels in smooth side out.

Put everything back together. Filled it with Valvoline Motorcycle oil rated JASO MA. Filled it to the Full line on the window.

Hooked up the clutch cable. Nothing. Still engaged.

Is there any way to get the clutch to disengage if the clutch cable is not hooked up? My buddy thought that since all the cable does is pull the lever, pulling the arm should achieve the same result. I told him that is not what I have been told on this thread.

Is it possible that I have a cable that is too long? I'm asking because when I bought the bike, it was not running. So, I do not know if the clutch cable is correct or not. Should I spring for a new cable just to rule that out if I still can't get it to disengage?

Also, I printed out the cable routing on BassCliff's website I'm certain I have it installed correctly. The only possible hangup is that where the cable goes between the carbs and engine, the guides are not there. I must have forgot to put that on when I put the engine in. I have them on the bench right now. Would that make any difference in the cable performing correctly?

The cable is way too loose. No amount of adjustments is making the cable function properly, which is why I'm thinking the cable is not the correct one because it acts like it is too long. I would need a 4 inch adjustment at clutch lever on the handle bar to get this to take up most of the slack.

I honestly can't believe that I'm still having this much trouble with such a simple part of the project.

 

[dluszcz]

Just to close this thread, the one thing that everyone overlooked after rebuilding the clutch the 1st time was rotating the rod clockwise to take up all the slack BEFORE putting the clutch arm back on.

And rebuilding a clutch is not as challenging as I thought it was. The only problem we had was we THOUGHT we did everything right and didn't even CONSIDER the fact that we had overlooked something so simple.

It really was something that simple and the clutch now disengages properly.

Next up, adjustment of the cable.

Thanks to all for your input.