78 GS1000E Clutch STILL Not Disengaging

[dluszcz]

So far, my problem has stumped 3 people, who have come over to look at my clutch. While they are not 100% familiar with my particular bike, one is a backyard bike mechanic, one built a drag bike, and one has about as much knowledge as I do, so really I can't count him.

Going on my 4th round of draining the oil to pull everything out again and see what it is we're all missing.

If I understand the clutch functioning correctly, when I pull the cable in, the clutch arm pulls in towards the motor. The teeth on the Clutch release turn clock wise, thus pulling the clutch thrust piece away from the engine to disengage the clutch pressure plate from the clutch basket, thus allowing the rear wheel to spin freely.

Having the bike in neutral, the wheel spins freely and nothing in the clutch is moving.

Putting the bike into 1st gear, with the clutch cover off and the springs, bolts, and pressure plate removed, there is a friction. It takes a some effort to get the tire to turn. (Could this be where my problem is originating? I thought the rear wheel would move just as easily with the bike in gear and the clutch pulled in to release the pressure on the plates.) The clutch basket turns, causing the steels to turn but the fibers do not move because the primary drive gear is not moving. If I hit the start button to move the engine a little bit, the primary drive gear moves everything.

If I had the motor running, the primary drive gear would be moving and thus my rear wheel would still be engaged.

My problem is that I don't understand what happens inside the clutch to disengage the motor to shift gears. I have everything assembled correctly as per the numerous diagrams I have found here and elsewhere. I filled the oil to the F on the window with 10W40 motorcycle oil, JASO MA rated.

But, since I can't get the clutch to disengage, I MUST be missing something. I'm at the point that I may just take it to a repair shop and hope they treat me gently.

See attached pic of where I left it last weekend.

[dluszcz]

This pic is with the pressure plate in but no springs or bolts.

[dluszcz]

This is the pic I took after removing the oil and clutch cover.

I removed the EBC fibers and replaced them with the OEM fibers from the 1st engine this is blown.

I even had the bike mechanic pull everything out, put it all back it himself, we poured the oil back in, started the bike, and the clutch still will not disengage.

Has anyone experienced anything like this?

[tom203]

Well, you had this thing apart many times- are you absolutely sure no spacers,washers, etc. have been left out? Doublecheck with parts diagram -Alpha-Sports.com-. Every thing facing right way? When clutch arm moves rack towards engine centerline, plates should seperate- You can't see it, but before you put clutch cover back on, pushing in on rack should offer lots of resistance.

[dluszcz]

Went to Alphasports.com and checked their diagram. It's virtually the same as the one in the Haynes Manual that I have and on BassCliff's website.

After the 2nd attempt, I was in a hurry and didn't get the clutch basket to sit against the back and was actually on top of the notches. Hence, I was cleaning some shavings out of the area from that. And wasted 4 1/2 quarts of oil cuz I wasn't going to use that oil again with shavings in it.

Other than that, everything fit well.

On the steel plates, all of them are facing the same direction, smooth side facing out from the engine.

I'm confused when you say 'before you put clutch cover back on, pushing in on rack should offer lots of resistance'. On both engines, when I removed the clutch cover, the rack, or as I referred to it as the 'clutch thrust piece', I had zero resistance. Free play is an understatement. It appears to not be touching anything at all.

When I had the clutch completely assembled and moved the clutch release pinion from one extreme to the other, the travel was 1 1/4", which is way too much from what I've been told.

If I move the rack with my hand before I assemble everything back together, the travel is 1/8", but zero resistance.

It appears that I've been rebuilding the clutch incorrectly but according to the diagram, everything is facing the correct way, in the correct order according to the diagrams. Why do I not have any resistance when pushing in on the rack?

[Big T]

Well,

for one thing, the rack moves out (towards the cover) to disengage. That's why you're not feeling any resistance when you push in, Try pulling the rack out and you'll notice all 6 springs are keeping it from moving. That's why there's a pinion and arm

So, if you have it reassembled, take the arm off and rotate the pinion shaft clockwise (from above) until it stops, remount the arm and try again

If you feel you must take it to a shop, find one that specializes in UJMs.

But, I'm sure there's a few members in your area that could help.

[cyclefvr2]

do you mean the tire wont move? clutch doesnt work?
i know for a fact some baskets,and pressure plates are "indexed"
that means the pressure plate goes in 1 way ,and will set flush and tight
make sure you get the teeth lined up righ on the arm,and rod, i hope this helps you

[dluszcz]

Big T, that makes more sense. Since I have 2 of everything, one of the guys used vice grips to pull it out. Nothing doing. Couldn't get it to budge. What's more amazing is the fact that we didn't damage it either. Not a scratch on it from the vice grips.

The teeth were lined up on the rod and arm. When the clutch cover is on, the total movement of the rod and arm is 1 1/4". I've been told that is way too much, but these people aren't experts on Suzukis either.

The tire will move freely when in neutral. When in 1st gear, the tire doesn't budge.

Before tearing it down 4 more times, I actually rode around the block a total of 4 miles trying to free it up by holding the clutch in and revving it up. I can power shift all the way to 5th gear and back down to 1 without use of the clutch. Not a good idea in Chicago traffic though.

I've had the arm off and moved it all the way out each time I reassembled it. But the rod just feels like nothing is happening when it moves. No friction at all and I think that is why I can't get it to disengage.

I think I may need to take it to a shop. I'm not plating this bike til spring so I have time to putz around all winter long to save money.

But, I'm holding out hope that I can describe my problems in such a way that I can get the correct help from the members on here. I've received a ton of advice and all of it has been awesome. I'm just hoping to learn more before next spring so I can ride it without any issues.

[BadBillyB]

So far, my problem has stumped 3 people, who have come over to look at my clutch. While they are not 100% familiar with my particular bike, one is a backyard bike mechanic, one built a drag bike, and one has about as much knowledge as I do, so really I can't count him.

Going on my 4th round of draining the oil to pull everything out again and see what it is we're all missing.

If I understand the clutch functioning correctly, when I pull the cable in, the clutch arm pulls in towards the motor. The teeth on the Clutch release turn clock wise, thus pulling the clutch thrust piece away from the engine to disengage the clutch pressure plate from the clutch basket, thus allowing the rear wheel to spin freely.

Having the bike in neutral, the wheel spins freely and nothing in the clutch is moving.

Putting the bike into 1st gear, with the clutch cover off and the springs, bolts, and pressure plate removed, there is a friction. It takes a some effort to get the tire to turn. (Could this be where my problem is originating? I thought the rear wheel would move just as easily with the bike in gear and the clutch pulled in to release the pressure on the plates.) The clutch basket turns, causing the steels to turn but the fibers do not move because the primary drive gear is not moving. If I hit the start button to move the engine a little bit, the primary drive gear moves everything.

If I had the motor running, the primary drive gear would be moving and thus my rear wheel would still be engaged.

My problem is that I don't understand what happens inside the clutch to disengage the motor to shift gears. I have everything assembled correctly as per the numerous diagrams I have found here and elsewhere. I filled the oil to the F on the window with 10W40 motorcycle oil, JASO MA rated.

But, since I can't get the clutch to disengage, I MUST be missing something. I'm at the point that I may just take it to a repair shop and hope they treat me gently.

See attached pic of where I left it last weekend.

This really should not be so difficult. First of all, you cant judge the clutch by it's center stand performance. In other words, when the cover is off and the springs/bolts/pressure plate are removed, the motor oil on the plates will cause the plates not to release, at least not enough to turn the tire (in gear) by hand. Couple of basic questions for you, since it seems we are back at square one.....
Do you have prior motorcycle riding experience ????
Does the clutch lever have noticeable resistance through its complete travel once adjusted???
Did you rotate the shaft (that the release arm attaches to) clock wise to take up the slack before attaching the release arm ????......Billy

[dluszcz]

I have previous motorcycle riding experience. However, until August of this year when I took the motorcycle safety class to get my "M" class on the license, it had been 7 years since I last rode.

After going through the motions yet again, I don't know what I did differently but I now have resistance. I can't get it to disengage yet, but that's because I killed the battery and will have to try again tomorrow morning.

I think that once I get the engine rolling and heated up that the plates will free themselves up and I should be good to go. This is before I put the cable back on. Right now, I have vice grips on the clutch lever to check it out.

We thought that maybe the cable was too long. I still think it is but once I get it to disengage, I will probably spring for a new cable since they are relatively inexpensive.

And, I'd be willing to bet that I didn't take up the slack correctly on the rod after putting the clutch cover back on because I made sure to double check everything and read through this thread and my previous threads to make sure I dotted every i and crossed every t. I honestly don't remember doing that when everyone was over here trying to figure it out. If that's all it was, I'm happy with that.

I'd feel like an idiot, but it's a lesson I won't forget down the road, which is to take my time and do it right the 1st time, not the 5th time, as in my case.

I'll update this post with the latest results after I get her running tomorrow morning. Trickle charge takes a while.

[dluszcz]

Why wait til tomorrow when I can do it now. Got enough of a charge and she started up.

After about 3 minutes of warming up, I started to move the vice grips out so that the clutch arm went in. After doing that a couple times while revving it up, I freed everything up and she's OK.

And, we finally have a clutch that disengages.

To all that helped in all of these threads, thanks a bunch. Your help got me to this point and I definitely appreciate it.

[blowerbike]

get new friends and please stop using the vise grips on your bike.

[850 Combat]

How tight are the clutch springs? My nephew reefed down on his with a similar result.

[dluszcz]

I can't answer how tight the clutch springs are yet because I still have to route the clutch cable and hook it up and adjust it properly. But, they are just the stock springs.

When I tightened the spring bolts, I turned them by hand til I couldn't move them any more and then gave a little tug with the ratchet. I wasn't about to sheer another bolt off in the clutch basket. Thankfully, I had 2 and I didn't even bother removing the sheered off bolt yet.

I know I shouldn't use the vice grips but it was easier since I didn't have any help last night figuring this out.

I think I'll keep the friends. This way, I'm not the only one who feels like an idiot missing that one little step. I'd rather spread the wealth than feel like an idiot all by myself!

[bellucci]

Where do you live? I am 40 miles north of the city in Fox Lake. If you are not on the south side, give me a shout if you have other problems.
Curt