Top End Noob

[Graham]

LOL...Oh Graham your ego is killing me ...Your rant of the "27 years" as a motorcycle mechanic was ..What ...???

I was telling how few inserts are in heads for the amount of motorcycles a person would repair in a 27year career.

Child labor laws...... Had an Uncle that was one of "Watson Wizzer's" and would go help him after school ..Lots of kids help in famliy shops..

I worked at my dad's shop back then too. Who cares.

Resume....With my skills and back ground the last resume I filled out was 20 years ago ... I dont have to at this point trust me ...And good thing I started at 8 it was the best thing I ever did..

Good for you.

Graham please dont get up set because people dont see it your way ...

I'm not. Are you?

And I'm sorry you have had bad luck with Helicoil's ...

I don't.

And at times helicoils and Timeserts do not work out right ...At times ..

They work right for me. I just don't use them for sparkplug repair.

Lifes a crap shoot...

Not mine.

Like I posted; just run an insert in a Suzuki GS sparkplug hole for 100 mile and see.

Have a good day

You too.

[andrewm]

Had a good shop put a helicoil on a sparkplug hole on my gs750 at the start of last season. Only put about 5000km on it last year but there haven't been any issues with it so far.

[MisterCinders]

So I picked up the gaskets to rebuild this thing. Clymers says to use "Suzuki Bond No. 1211 or equivalent" with the gaskets.

What is an equivalent bonding agent?

TIA

[exploited789]

Sorry not trying to thread jack, but I'm doing currently replacing the head gasket on a 77 gs750 (all oem gaskets) and was also curious if i need some type of gasket sealer.

Thanks.

[Nessism]

You do not need any sealer on the gaskets. I don't know why Clymer's suggests such as thing. And there has been lots of negative feedback about non-stock gaskets/seals. Suzuki gaskets are expensive, but far more reliable than non-stock gaskets such as Athena.

[MisterCinders]

Ugh, I just bought the Athena set.

IIRC, the Clymer instruction focuses on the O-Ring in the middle of the cylinder. That is where Clymer suggests using the 1211 Bond.

[Nessism]

Ugh, I just bought the Athena set.

IIRC, the Clymer instruction focuses on the O-Ring in the middle of the cylinder. That is where Clymer suggests using the 1211 Bond.

The base gasket is the prime offender with the Athena gasket kit; the green gasket material can't take the clamp load of a cylinder head so it extrudes out of position under the cylinder. If you get a stock base gasket to supplement the Athena kit it might be worth the gamble. Just be sure to check the torque at regular intervals during engine break-in to make sure the head nuts are tight.

[hampshirehog]

Just to add some meat and some confusion to Ed's post on Athena gaskets....

I would still use them.....in the UK. Maybe we've got different stock, I don't know, but I've not had any problems with them. On the other hand, Ed put a base gasket on his GS1000 and from the photos he posted I would suggest that you can buy better stuff for wiping your backside.

The gasket material is certainly different to OEM - which feels and looks more like very thin lino. Pass on what OEM costs over there - if the base gasket is only a tenner or so I'd buy one. If you've got rip off Britain spreading it's evil money grabbing ways I might also be tempted to buy the right gasket material and use your Athena one as a template.

[mike_of_bbg]

Yes it's good to use Threebond on that rectangular o-ring so it doesn't get out of place during the head installation (it's not really for "sealing" the o-ring per se). You want to let it set and get tacky. I've heard tales told too of people soaking them in hot water for a little while so they lose any natural curvature from the packaging.

Please do listen to Ed. Base gaskets are cheap. Perhaps my Athena head gasket would not have weeped oil if I'd used an OEM base gasket.

[exploited789]

Awesome, thank you for all the quick replies =]

[TheCafeKid]

With the Athena kits Ive used (and no long use) the biggest offender I found were the stud holes being cut just wrong. The base gasket/headgasket would want to buckle instead of sitting flat. The tear drop shaped Orings included for the oil passages around the studs I would also deem to be inferior as compared to OEM.

Having said that, I helped Steve rebuild his sons 850s top end with an Athena kit, and he just re-did his wifes 850s top end with an Athena kit.... No leaks that I am aware of...

[Nessism]

With the Athena kits Ive used (and no long use) the biggest offender I found were the stud holes being cut just wrong. The base gasket/headgasket would want to buckle instead of sitting flat. The tear drop shaped Orings included for the oil passages around the studs I would also deem to be inferior as compared to OEM.

Having said that, I helped Steve rebuild his sons 850s top end with an Athena kit, and he just re-did his wifes 850s top end with an Athena kit.... No leaks that I am aware of...

I'm surprised Steve would gamble on the Athena base gasket since surely he's seen these photos and read all the bad reviews on these gaskets. If I was forced to use the Athena gaskets (including the base gasket) again I'd torque the head nuts to 25 ft-lbs and then live with a little oil weepage. Better than total failure.

[MisterCinders]

Yes it's good to use Threebond on that rectangular o-ring so it doesn't get out of place during the head installation (it's not really for "sealing" the o-ring per se). You want to let it set and get tacky. I've heard tales told too of people soaking them in hot water for a little while so they lose any natural curvature from the packaging.

Please do listen to Ed. Base gaskets are cheap. Perhaps my Athena head gasket would not have weeped oil if I'd used an OEM base gasket.

Which "Threebond" should I use. I have some 1194, but there is also a Threebond 1211. That matches the Clymer reference to "Suzuki Bond 1211." Should get a new tube of that stuff? Can I use what I have at hand?

[mike_of_bbg]

Threebond 1194 should be fine. You're not really using it as a sealant, just as a glue to hold the o-ring in place so it doesn't slip out and get pinched during the head installation.

[MisterCinders]

I am at a crossroads.

I pulled the head and installed the plug insert. The cylinder refuses to come off the engine. Tapping with a rubber mallet has no effect and there are no places to get a good purchase for prying the damn thing off. The gasket seal is so tight, that a razor won't get in there.

At first, I was tempted to reassemble and see how she runs, get some rides in, and otherwise postpone deeper exploration until later, perhaps through a shop.

A top-end rebuild, however, will cost about $400 - $500. So, my course of action is to return to the task of removing that cylinder, and possibly buying a replacement from eBay, should it not survive removal (there is already a small crack in one of the cooling fins).

Whether I replace the cylinder or not, I'll likely need to change piston rings and definitely need to hone the cylinders. I don't have the equipment for the hone job.

I also don't have the tools to remove the valves for inspection, though it looks like some home remedy tools might work from what I have seen on other threads. Even if I get the valves out, if they need any honing, I don't have the equipment.

I suppose that I could tear down the top end and get an estimate for the honing work from a shop. It should be much cheaper to get those discrete tasks done, without the added labor of tearing down and rebuilding the top end.

Does this make sense? Are there other approaches that I have overlooked?

TIA