Top End Noob

[Nessism]

Lapping is easy. No reason for concern. Like suggested, check out some videos. You won't be afraid after you educate yourself.

I'd use that 64mm flex hone. 320 grit would be good.

I'd replace the rings. You can reuse them if necessary but considering the time and gasket cost to pull the head, I'd just error on the safe side.

 

[MisterCinders]

Shopping for new piston rings now. How do I figure out what size I need (i.e., std, +0.5mm or +1.0mm)?

Should I err on bigger, so I can file down to fit?

 

[Nessism]

Shopping for new piston rings now. How do I figure out what size I need (i.e., std, +0.5mm or +1.0mm)?

Should I err on bigger, so I can file down to fit?

Those sizes relate to the bore size. You use standard rings on standard pistons, etc.

 

[MisterCinders]

First of all, Ed is a saint for putting up with all these questions.

Ordered full set of new rings, new valve oil seals, new OEM base gasket and rubber parts, piston snap rings, new valve keepers, lapping tool and compound.

Received my FLEX-HONE today.

Will continue to clean up the valves, mating surfaces, etc. while waiting for parts.

Finally checked out that valve replacement video. After downloading the player, and the video, the damn thing cuts off in the middle after he explains the shop-built valve compressor (which I already dealt with) but before going into the actual valve work. In particular, the step-by-step on re-installing the valves is what I am looking for.

For instance, I am not going to hammer out the valve guides, they look fine. OTOH how do you pull the bottom spring seat? Clymer's/Service Manual suggest that it plucks right out, but I cannot get in there to pull it and don't want to manhandle anything in that space.

Of course, Clymer's/Service Manual also said merely to "use needle-nose pliers to remove the valve oil seals" -- and that was a much tougher task.

 

[MisterCinders]

Ugh - got my parts order in.

One of the valve keeper sets contained only one half. More delays. Also figured out that my order for snap rings did not make it into the form. Guess I'll wait another week for parts.

FML

 

[Nessism]

You can reuse the old valve keepers. Why are you changing them?

By snap rings do you mean for the piston pin? If so, you DO need to change the ones you extract out of the piston, but not if it is left in the piston.

 

[MisterCinders]

Clymer's said to discard the valve keepers and replace. Even if I could reuse them, I pitched them already. v0v

Yes, snap rings are the piston pin circle clip.

Also, I have new rubber o-rings for the base of each jug. The old ones look like they are embedded into the cylinder and do not budge. Do these actually come out? Figured I would double check before picking them out of there and replacing them.

 

[Nessism]

Clymer's said to discard the valve keepers and replace. Even if I could reuse them, I pitched them already. v0v

Yes, snap rings are the piston pin circle clip.

Also, I have new rubber o-rings for the base of each jug. The old ones look like they are embedded into the cylinder and do not budge. Do these actually come out? Figured I would double check before picking them out of there and replacing them.

Valve keepers are reusable on the GS bikes. Another example of Clymer's having their heads up their backsides.

You can download the factory service manual from basscliff's website for free. Please go get yourself a copy and use that as the default authority. If Clymer's supplements the FSM information, fine. But don't believe Clymer's if they contradict Suzuki.

You can dig those O-rings out with a pick or pin. They don't do much of anything anyway so you could have reused the old ones.

Sounds like you are getting close. Keep going...

 

[MisterCinders]

I do refer to both manuals. Of course the Service Manual says to drive out and replace the valve guides, and I am not doing that. heh

The snap rings are what **** me off the most because I had them on my list, but amidst my confusion between Z1 (who have some circle clips, but not the right ones) and Part Shark (where I had not set up a profile before) I managed to leave them out of my order. Now I have the whole thing ready to go back together . . . in a week when the damn clip-rings (snap rings? circle clips?) arrive.

I am close though. So close I can taste it.

 

[MisterCinders]

Holy crap! I have a new and deep hatred of those valve keepers. Took me an hour to get only 2 valve assemblies installed. Fiddling with those keepers sucks.

Tried small flathead with grease, small needle-nose pliers, etc., but fishing the keepers into that gap is maddening. Is there some better technique for this? I see a number of $50 tools that appear to pop the keepers into place, but I am not trying to buy one of those.

Other ideas?

 

[kirkn]

Here's a thread on my own efforts. The last page of the thread has some pictures of my efforts. Getting the keepers back in once the springs are compressed was a one-shot, 30-second task. I used small needle-nosed pliers to drop 'em in, and a tiny jeweler's type screwdriver to poke 'em around, if needed. Then, back off the C-clamp and they wedge right into place.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=161316&page=5

Good luck with 'em.

Kirk

 

[MisterCinders]

Nice photo essay.

I think my notched sprocket is too small for the task. Probably need to fashion a better piece out of pvc like yours with a better viewing area for fiddling with the keepers.

BTW - not only did I neglect to order the clip ring fasteners for the pistons (which are now en route), but I pulled another bonehead maneuver. First try at reassembling the valve confirmed that a 10mm sprocket and extension fits the oil seal perfectly for installation. If only I'd put the lower spring seat in place before testing that out. So I have a couple spare oil seals coming with those clip rings.

 

[MisterCinders]

Also, while I wait for parts, I am dutifully cleaning the mating areas for the gaskets. Scraped out the old gasket material, but I cannot get that shiny clean metal shown in other pics. The gasket scraper (razor blade) will probably scratch into the aluminum, so I don't want to be too aggressive. What else should I use to finish cleaning up those surfaces?

 

[cowboyup3371]

I've used 400 grit paper and have heard some saying 600 - 800 paper will do you fine. Just go easy and use a sanding block not your fingers.

 

[MisterCinders]

Cripes.

Got the rings on and the pistons attached.

How the hell do I get the cylinders back on? Got hose clamps to compress the rings, but I still need about 7 hands to put everything in place. Is there any way to do this solo??

 

[gearhead13]

Cripes.

Got the rings on and the pistons attached.

How the hell do I get the cylinders back on? Got hose clamps to compress the rings, but I still need about 7 hands to put everything in place. Is there any way to do this solo??

I just installed my cylinders back on with the engine still in the bike by myself.
A few tips,
Do the middle two first, Somehow you have to keep the crank from turning, either with a block of wood or putting the bike in gear. Fully tighten the clamps on the middle two, lower the block, line up the pistons to the bores, then slowly loosen the clamps and tap on the top of the block, watching to make sure the pistons are going in straight and that the rings arent getting snagged, use a small screwdriver if needed to poke the rings into the bores.
Do not force it, if it doesnt go easily, find out why first.
Good luck.

 

[MisterCinders]

OK- Gearhead is a friggin magician. I cannot fathon for a second how this could be done by one person other than Otto Octavius.

With a buddy's helping, we finally got that beast into place. There was cursing, followed by rejoicing.

I put the head on to rest on the block and press the gaskets into place until I can get back to the project. This weekend, I can move forward with installing the head gaskets and head, and doing the timing chain, valve adjustments, reinstalling the exhaust, vacuum synching the carbs (replaced all intake and carb o-rings, and re-jetted for pods/4-1 pipes last Fall, and fully cleaned twice, etc.), and cleaning and re-oiling the pods.

Holy crap, I might even start this bastard!

 

[almarconi]

I just got done assembling an 8 valve head yesterday. I made a compressor after watching Steve's video. I did not have any pvc handy so I uses a rigid conduit coupling with a window cut into it. The one I used was about 7/8" so there was some wiggle room in the valve bore. Putting the keepers on took a minute or two once the spring was compressed. I think if the compressor was tight in the bore I would not have been able to put the keepers on as easily. Once I put one keeper on, I could shift the valve spring slightly to one side and slip the other keeper in. When I released the C clamp, the keepers aligned and locked into place.

 

[gearhead13]

OK- Gearhead is a friggin magician. I cannot fathon for a second how this could be done by one person other than Otto Octavius.

With a buddy's helping, we finally got that beast into place. There was cursing, followed by rejoicing.

I put the head on to rest on the block and press the gaskets into place until I can get back to the project. This weekend, I can move forward with installing the head gaskets and head, and doing the timing chain, valve adjustments, reinstalling the exhaust, vacuum synching the carbs (replaced all intake and carb o-rings, and re-jetted for pods/4-1 pipes last Fall, and fully cleaned twice, etc.), and cleaning and re-oiling the pods.

Holy crap, I might even start this bastard!

Having a buddy to help would make it much easier, but I dont have any friends:-s

 

[MisterCinders]

Update:

Got the cylinder head on and the chain timed. That took three attempts because I am dumb.

Checked the new valve clearances, and two of them are too tight. So I am waiting on some new shims.

Put the exhaust back on, but ran into some trouble there. Basically, some of the exhaust bolts do not like the threads on that head. They came out of the head without much difficulty, but when I reinstalled the pipes, 2-3 of the bolts get really tight early. I checked the bolts, and their threads look fine. So I fear that the head has gotten cross-threaded or something.

After pairing the bolts as best I could, the exhaust is on there, but I cannot properly torque some of the bolts for fear of further damaging the threads on that head.

Any ideas? Do I need to bore out those threads?