Top End Noob

[Nessism]

Keep trying with the cylinder. I had the same problem getting it loose on one of my bikes but eventually it loosened after careful prying, and no fins were broken.

A bottle brush hone job shouldn't cost more than $30 or so, or buy your own hone from enginehones.com. The head shouldn't need any machine work unless it's warped or the gasket surface is corroded. Basscliff's web site has a valve removal tutorial if you need help.

[MisterCinders]

The manual says to coat the cams in SUZUKI MOLY PASTE. Is that just anti-seize compound?

[Nessism]

The manual says to coat the cams in SUZUKI MOLY PASTE. Is that just anti-seize compound?

No, anti-size is different stuff.

You can get engine assembly lube at auto parts stores but you don't need it. Plain engine oil is fine for an engine with used cams and followers. Put some oil on the cam journals (under the cam caps that bolt to the head) and then fill up the pockets on the head with oil and you will be fine.

[MisterCinders]

OK - trying to remove this cylinder is kicking my ass. That bastard will not budge.

Tried tapping then whacking the damn thing with a rubber mallet. The rubber head split off the wooden handle (it was kind of old).

Cylinder - 1
Cinders - 0

Tried prying at different points, but there are not many spots that offer good purchase without risk of damage to a cooling fin. Where I could get a grip, screwdrivers and wrenches flexed without budging the beast.

Cylinder - 2
Cinders - 0

WTF is left? I'll pick up a new mallet and a prybar, but that approach seems hopeless. I have a heat gun, but that might cause uneven expansion of the metal, so I am loathe to try that.

I triple checked to make sure there is not some hidden fastener that I overlooked. Nothing.

Are there any solvents or other methods that will break the goddamn seal on this monster??

[mike_of_bbg]

Is there a shelf just below or above the cam chain tensioner where you can get a little fin-risk-free leverage?

[kirkn]

Ok, how 'bout this: lay a piece of angle iron across the top of the cylinders. Somehow figure a way to clamp the iron to the top of the cylinder. Cut a wood block to fit between the tops of 1 & 4 pistons and the bottom of the iron. Rotate the crankshaft using the 19mm bolt at the ignition end. Crank moves pistons up against the blocks / iron which 'lifts' the cylinders up...

I dunno, I'm just kickin' it around...

This is just a quick picture of my own GS700E at that stage...

[MisterCinders]

Is there a shelf just below or above the cam chain tensioner where you can get a little fin-risk-free leverage?

That is one of the few places that tried to pry, flexing anything I used for a lever.

[MisterCinders]

Ok, how 'bout this: lay a piece of angle iron across the top of the cylinders. Somehow figure a way to clamp the iron to the top of the cylinder. Cut a wood block to fit between the tops of 1 & 4 pistons and the bottom of the iron. Rotate the crankshaft using the 19mm bolt at the ignition end. Crank moves pistons up against the blocks / iron which 'lifts' the cylinders up...

I dunno, I'm just kickin' it around...

This is just a quick picture of my own GS700E at that stage...

As much flex as I saw in my prying attempts, I suspect that approach would snap the timing chain.

[kirkn]

No, not using the timing chain, but it might damage the pistons or the bolt on the end of the crank...

Maybe a blunt chisel, tapping (banging) upwards somewhere down at the bottom fin.

Or, aggressively hammering at the cylinder-to-block joint, and repair the damage later...

sigh.

[mike_of_bbg]

Are you shooting anything (like PB Blaster or ATF/Acetone) down the inner 8 head studs? There are basically three things you're fighting - the base gasket seal, the piston ring drag, and all the gunk that's settled in between those studs and the cylinder.

A jack and a 2x2 under the front of the cam chain tunnel? Get a constant upward force then take your rubber/plastic mallet around the top and try to shake it loose. Give the studs a tap, too.

[Larry D]

There's a tool made for this job. It's scissor looking contraption that wedges in between the block and head at the front of the engine. It has a nut that is adjusted to pop them apart. Now....where do get one ? I don't know, perhaps a local bike shop has one that you could leave your first-born with and borrow it.....Other than that, be careful not to break the fins and keep banging on it in strategic places. I suppose, if you're very careful, you could try tapping a thin blade of some sort in between to help begin to break it loose. Be very careful to to mar up the mating surfaces.

[MisterCinders]

Are you shooting anything (like PB Blaster or ATF/Acetone) down the inner 8 head studs? There are basically three things you're fighting - the base gasket seal, the piston ring drag, and all the gunk that's settled in between those studs and the cylinder.

A jack and a 2x2 under the front of the cam chain tunnel? Get a constant upward force then take your rubber/plastic mallet around the top and try to shake it loose. Give the studs a tap, too.

I hadn't tried this. Will add it to the arsenal.

[MisterCinders]

There's a tool made for this job. It's scissor looking contraption that wedges in between the block and head at the front of the engine. It has a nut that is adjusted to pop them apart. Now....where do get one ? I don't know, perhaps a local bike shop has one that you could leave your first-born with and borrow it.....Other than that, be careful not to break the fins and keep banging on it in strategic places. I suppose, if you're very careful, you could try tapping a thin blade of some sort in between to help begin to break it loose. Be very careful to to mar up the mating surfaces.

I tried to get a razor in there to break the seal. Not happening.

[Suzuki mad]

Question 1, where the cam chain gone?

You could try (dont all shout at me at once) holding the cam chain up and tight then turn the engine over slowly to see if the pistons lift the cylinder block. (Holding the chain tight be allowing it to move keeps the chain on the crankshaft sprocket.) The chain tensioner that sticking out will also hold the barrels up from coming fully off the studs too.

Its likely that the cylinder is stuck down with rust and years of crud in the stud holes. Its possible to remove the studs with a stud extractor but that's a final resort. (Restorer's cut the studs to get a head off on GT750's!)

Can you see damage in No3 bore hence the need for new rings? What's the condition of the other bore's, can you still see the honing marks?

Pictures please.

[MisterCinders]

Hard to tell. I have been wrestling with it for so long, that the jugs picked up some light surface rust spots. :-( I can give them a good scrub and take some photos, check the honing, etc.

The piston tops show a healthy carbon build-up but nothing horrid AFAICT. Indeed, when I first opened it up, I was surprised to see that the No. 3 cylinder looked a bit cleaner than the others in terms of carbon build-up.