Ring job Questions

[tkent02]

Sitting on the bike facing forward. From left to right (I can never remember which is 1 and which is 4) the cylinders read 90 psi (plug looks a little lean), 90 psi (plug is very dark), 90 psi (plug is dark), and 70 psi (plus looks normal).

What gives?

These numbers are with open throttle on a hot engine?

[Dizzixx]

Those numbers where me kickstarting it. (dead battery) and it not running. I couldnt afford to shell out 40$ for the leak down tester and the places around here don't lend them out, only let you use them in the parking lot.

Its apart now. Pictures to follow.

[tkent02]

I'm thinking it just needs a good hard run.
It often works wonders.

Doh, I see it's apart now, I guess we are finished troubleshooting. Can't afford $40 for troubleshooting equipment but hundreds for unnecessary parts is OK. I see.

By the way, those compression numbers are very good for just using the kickstarter on a cold engine.

[Dizzixx]

What about the one 70 psi thats 20 lower than the other three? That cylinder also appears to have more carbon deposit on the cylinder itself. I dont see significant scoring of any type on the walls and the gaskets all look immaculate.

I had ridden it a little harder up a canyon once while it was like this. A bunch of friends went on a ride and I couldnt resist. It did not pull as hard and you could see and smell the smoke. Did not sound different mechanically. The exhaust note was a little deeper (if I remember right). That didnt help anything.

I guess I will get the stampings off the piston and price the rings. If they dont cost to much I think I might just replace them since I have it all apart anyways and am fairly certain thats the problem. I still dont know why it just seems to have all the symptoms to me. (well according to you the compression should be lower but I have terrible luck with these things so who knows)

Sorry if I went at you in the other thread. I appreciate your help and am just frustrated. I dont see the rings going bad suddenly after doing a bunch of other things being related to the break in after 6000 miles.

[tkent02]

Sorry if I went at you in the other thread. I appreciate your help and am just frustrated. I dont see the rings going bad suddenly after doing a bunch of other things being related to the break in after 6000 miles.

Nothing should hurt rings at 6,000 miles, unless it was run without oil or revved to 14,000 RPM, or maybe overheated by idling for a half hour on a hot day.
Are you sure it's not fuel smoke? There are a lot of causes for too much fuel to be going into the cylinder all of a sudden, like a stuck float, a piece of junk in the needle valve, or perhaps a jet fell out or something. By the way, a cylinder running super rich like this for a while will cause the compression test to read lower on that cylinder. Fix the carb and run it for a while, the compression will come back up. The carbon deposit on that cylinder points to this, as well.

We were not trying to **** you off, just trying to help you troubleshoot this thing to avoid taking it apart unnecessarily.

[Dizzixx]

I would like to understand.

Could you explain how too much fuel would cause the compression to read low?

I have honestly never gone through a carb before I have always found the task a little daunting. I have the service manual though so I might as well. Any pointers?

[tkent02]

I would like to understand.

Could you explain how too much fuel would cause the compression to read low?

I have honestly never gone through a carb before I have always found the task a little daunting. I have the service manual though so I might as well. Any pointers?

I'm not sure exactly how it happens, I think washes all of the oil out of the rings and cylinder walls, so it's not getting the lubrication it needs. Also the oil isn't there to help seal things up( remember the wet compression test to check for bad rings?) I have a GS 1000 sitting here, it had a manufacturing plug in the carburetor fall out, so there is a 1/4 inch hole between the float bowl and the venturi. Needless to say, instantly super rich, with huge clouds of smoke. The owner thought it "blew a ring" so sold it to me for a song. The compression was low on that cylinder, can't remember exactly, something around 60 or so. I put a good rack of carbs on it, now it runs fine, I rode it around a little, very smooth and nice. The compression still reads a little low, but within limits. It is waiting it's turn to be restored, haven't ridden it a lot of miles to find out, but the compression is likely to come back up with time and mileage.

Everything you need to know to fix up the carburetors is on Cliff's site someplace.

[Dizzixx]

Sorry but ''cliff's site''?

I imagine the procedure is similar to that detailed here?

http://www.thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm

[cowboyup3371]

Cliff's Site - Basscliff's website he put together and gathered a lot of articles. If he hasn't already he'll be along later to welcome you.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

[Skateguy50]

I hope you get this sorted but if you did pull the bolts on the head you are in it at least for the cost of new suzuki OEM gaskets so you no point turning back as you will just leak oil all over if done.

When it comes to troubleshooting you should focus on when it came up and what you changed, the folks here tried to save you frustration and focus on that. However whats done is done so you have to replace the gaskets and will need to get to the rings to do that so you can get the visual check and see if that is your issue.

[Dizzixx]

Why do I have to replace all the gaskets? Does it make it difficult to torque it to spec. OR is it that they have been permanently deformed by the compression and so torquing them to spec won't be sufficient to prevent leakage?

They gaskets look good. If I measure them with a multimeter can I verify that they are usable?

I have it apart but I dont know what you mean by visual check. Like I said the cylinder walls seem fine. Would pictures help? Tell what to take pictures of and I will.

[tkent02]

Did your mechanic replace the valve stem seals when he did the cylinders?

[Dizzixx]

I dont know. I will have to call and ask I know he keeps the invoices. I should still have my copy if I can dig it up. I noticed someone having similar issues

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=175966

[sk843143]

ok im not trying to b mean here but ...... you are afraid to clean and reasimble a rack of carbs (somthing that the only thing you have to measure and adj is the float height) but taking apart a overhead cam engine and removing the jug (somthing that when done corectly takes lots of detailed mesurments and detailed notes) and yet it seems like you have no idea what you are looking for that would signify a problem. many people on this board have tryed to tell you what to look for and how to do the test and yet you eather havent done them or havent posted the results. (and as for the gaskets and not using the old ones, yes it has somthing to do with them being deformed by compression and torquing, also the tool used for measuring them is a micromiter (sp)) sorry for all the miss spelled words but im sleep deprived and dont have the energy or time to check them due to my 1 week old son.... like i said im really not trying to come across like an ass....... but your making it realy hard to help you. there is a ton of info on this board and a ton of exp techs who know what they are doing with these old bikes.... we are willing to help but we can only help if you listen (its hard enough diagnosing a problem over the internet in the first place)