Clutch questions

[Guest]

I'm having a hard time shifting up into 2nd gear from 1st on my GS550. It also seems to "lurch" forward somewhat when I shift from neutral to 1st gear (not severely although I'm not really sure what severe would be). Other gear changes seem ok and I haven't had a problem stalling when I come to stop. I found another post where cowboyup3371 had some of the same problems with his GS550 and was able to resolve it by doing the clutch adjustment as described in the manual using the 3 adjusters (1 - clutch lever, 2 - where the cable meets the engine, and 3 - the screw under the clutch adjustment cover).

I have adjusted the clutch cable several time at these 3 points following the steps in the Clymer manual. It seems a bit better immediately after the adjustment but it doesn't last. Even immediately after adjustment, I wouldn't call it perfect (still lurches a bit and upshifting to 2nd isn't exactly easy).

So I'm assuming the logical first step would be to replace the clutch cable with an OEM part? Would it make sense to replace the clutch springs as well or is that not necessary?

My other question is about a something I found when doing the cable adjustment using the screw under the "clutch adjustment cover". There is something above the adjustment screw. It's wet and kind of ... gelatinous. In the other post, Nessism mentioned "lube the helix mechanism built into the clutch cover (there is a grease nipple)". Is that what I'm seeing? Does it look normal?

Clutch adjustment cover removed (adjuster is the screw / nut in the middle):


Closeup - is this thing above the adjuster just a .... greased nipple?:

[Nessism]

That little protrusion with the ball in the center is a grease nipple. You take a grease gun and then shoot some grease inside.

Regarding the clutch adjustment, as you already stated there are three possible areas to adjust. I suggest you screw in the adjustment at the hand lever and then use the helix to take all the slack out of the cable. You want the clutch lever to be tight, with only a little slack when fully released. The hard shifting and lurch you are noting is because the clutch is dragging. Tighten the cable until it fully releases when you pull it in.

Good luck and hope this helps.

[scott]

That little protrusion with the ball in the center is a grease nipple. You take a grease gun and then shoot some grease inside.

Ok - so that goop is just grease. Given that it's all over the nipple, I assume there's enough grease in there for now. Are there symptoms that indicate more grease is needed there?

Regarding the clutch adjustment, as you already stated there are three possible areas to adjust. I suggest you screw in the adjustment at the hand lever and then use the helix to take all the slack out of the cable. You want the clutch lever to be tight, with only a little slack when fully released. The hard shifting and lurch you are noting is because the clutch is dragging. Tighten the cable until it fully releases when you pull it in.

While I do have the hand lever adjustment screwed in all the way, one thing I haven't been doing is screwing in the adjustment where the cable meets the engine in all the way before using the helix (I assume the "helix" is the screw under the clutch adjustment cover) to find the resistance point. I'll give that a try.

Good luck and hope this helps.

Yes, definitely - thanks!

[Nessism]

Ok - so that goop is just grease. Given that it's all over the nipple, I assume there's enough grease in there for now. Are there symptoms that indicate more grease is needed there?


While I do have the hand lever adjustment screwed in all the way, one thing I haven't been doing is screwing in the adjustment where the cable meets the engine in all the way before using the helix (I assume the "helix" is the screw under the clutch adjustment cover) to find the resistance point. I'll give that a try.


Yes, definitely - thanks!

That grease is crusty and dried out. I suggest a new shot into that nipple.

You can turn both the hand lever adjustment and the cable end adjustment all the way in, and then use that helix adjustment to take the slack out of the cable. Loosen the lock nut and then turn the screw slot until all the slack is out of the hand lever. Again, you only want a small amount of free play at the lever, but make sure there is some.

Have fun

[cowboyup3371]

Hey Ed, someone actually used the search function. Maybe we ought to give him a few extra brownie points.

All kidding aside Scott (hey I'm Scott too), everything you saw and that Ed told you is spot on. I found that by adjusting the end that feeds into the sprocket cover things settled down on me. I will also recommend getting the new cable (I need to do so as well) and really taking your time to adjust it. Don't get frustrated too quick and make sure you have a test run first and then a longer run that allows your bike to warm up. Then you'll know for sure if what you did fixed it.

Good luck and let us know how things go.

[scott]

Update

I adjusted the cable by tightening both the handle lever adjustment and the cable end adjustment the feeds into the sprocket cover all the way. I then used the helix/screw to find the resistance point and stopped (even though there was still plenty of free play at the lever). Then I used the cable end adjustment that feeds into the sprocket cover to get the free play at the lever to just over 2mm.

I assume I shouldn't "tighten" the helix/screw until the free play at the hand lever is at the desired point but rather just stop when I first feel any resistance. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong?

I went for a test ride and it seemed similar to the other times right after adjustment - okay but not great. It still had a slight bump forward when I took it out of neutral and getting into second wasn't very easy (but it would get in eventually at least).

Side question: when people say the bike "lurches forward" - do they mean this bump I'm experiencing or it a slow rolling forward motion that does not stop? In my case, after the initial "bump" into gear, the bike does not move forward when I hold in the clutch lever.

When I got back from about a 20 minute ride around my neighborhood, I checked the free play at the lever and it had increased to almost 4mm. This is still within spec but something seems off if it's changing like that. Is this a sign of a cable that needs replacing? Or am I not tightening something enough (I haven't been really torquing on these adjusters)?

Thanks for all the advice guys.

[Rudeman]

How is the wear at the clutch lever pivot? Remove the cable and check it if it is excessively worn it will be difficult to set the free play accurately. increase in freeplay is normal after the bike is warmed up and ridden for a while but I'm not sure if it should double the cold setting. Are you using stock clutch or are you running extra friction and steel plates?

A lurch like you described is okay; it should not pull you forward. I would be concerned about the fact that you have difficulty shifting through neutral.

[1948man]

Does the lurch symptom improve when the bike is warm? I think I have read it is not uncommon to have some sticking in wet clutches when the engine is cold.

[scott]

It seems like the free play "reset" to less than 3mm overnight so it does seem like the bike being warm vs cold is having an effect on the cable. I took another test ride. In general, I would say the 1st -> 2nd gear shifts do seem to get easier as the bike warms up even if it's never really smooth/easy. This past test ride I only had one instance where I really couldn't get it into 2nd (probably took almost 10 seconds of retrying!). Fortunately I'm only riding on my neighborhood roads. If there was traffic behind me ... not good. That was pretty early into the ride so the bike would have been somewhat cold.

How is the wear at the clutch lever pivot? Remove the cable and check it if it is excessively worn it will be difficult to set the free play accurately.

I'll have to check this. Would the wear be in Part 3 in the fiche below? At least it's replaceable if that's the problem.

Are you using stock clutch or are you running extra friction and steel plates?

As far as I know it's stock but I can't say definitively. I haven't opened it up to look.

Does the lurch symptom improve when the bike is warm? I think I have read it is not uncommon to have some sticking in wet clutches when the engine is cold.

In the middle of the test ride, I stopped and put it into neutral to try it. It still bumped a little. When I got back home (maybe a 30 minute test ride), I tried it again in the garage. For some reason, I had a bit of a problem finding neutral and even a problem getting it into 1st from neutral (that's the first time that's happened). The interesting thing was that when it went it did go into 1st, there was NO bump/lurch (another first). It was so strange to not have ANY bump that I made sure to confirm it was in gear.

I'm not really sure what to make of it though.

[hjfisk]

When was the last oil change, old oil , or oil that has been contaminated maybe with gas would make shifts a little difficult. I have a GS750 that I bought new in 83 and have always run Castor Oil , motorcycle oil in it. Sent it to a shop for some dyno runs and had them change the oil they put Torco in it ,the bike would hang in gear. drained the oil and put Castor oil back in it and it shifted like new again. Try an oil change

[Suzuki_Don]

OK. The way I see it there could be two problems.

The first is the clutch is not adjusted properly.

Back off both adjusters like you did previously, one at the handlebar and one on the sprocket cover. Release the locknut on the small stud in the helix gear, turn the threaded stud out so you are sure you have clearance, then turn it back in again until it touches the clutch pushrod inside the transmission case. When you feel this resistance you then back out the threaded stud 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn to provide clearance. If there is no clearance here and the stud and pushrod expand then the clutch will not be fully released after the motor warms up.

It's all in the manual. Then readjust the two adjuster at either end of the cable to achieve the correct free play at the handlebar lever.

The other possibility if this doesn't fix the problem is with the clutch itself. Bent clutch plates, grooved clutch basket surfaces, plates that will not slide smoothly in the basket and clutch plate surface deterioration. All these things can cause problems in the lower three gears of the transmission when changing gears.

[scott]

When was the last oil change, old oil , or oil that has been contaminated maybe with gas would make shifts a little difficult. I have a GS750 that I bought new in 83 and have always run Castor Oil , motorcycle oil in it. Sent it to a shop for some dyno runs and had them change the oil they put Torco in it ,the bike would hang in gear. drained the oil and put Castor oil back in it and it shifted like new again. Try an oil change

The oil was just changed a few weeks ago (3rd oil change since March). However, the reason it's had so many oil changes was that the first issue I was trying to address was fuel getting into the oil. I replaced the petcock, cleaned/dipped the carbs, replace the O-rings, checked/set the float heights, etc. One of the float needle springs seems a little weak but I don't think it was bad enough to cause a problem.

So, while I think the oil is clean, I'm not positive. If the carbs are still overflowing, it's much less than before. The oil level hasn't been going up noticeably like it was before at least.

[Nessism]

On my old 550T the clutch would get grabby and drag when the engine got hot. It was very hard to find neutral and the shifting was clunky when warm. Took the clutch apart and never could find anything wrong with it. The clutch cable was set tight to make sure the clutch fully releasing but it was still the same. Only thing I can think of to try is maybe change the clutch friction discs and measure the steel discs for flatness. Other than this I'm at a loss for suggestions.

[scott]

OK. The way I see it there could be two problems.

The first is the clutch is not adjusted properly.

Back off both adjusters like you did previously, one at the handlebar and one on the sprocket cover. Release the locknut on the small stud in the helix gear, turn the threaded stud out so you are sure you have clearance, then turn it back in again until it touches the clutch pushrod inside the transmission case. When you feel this resistance you then back out the threaded stud 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn to provide clearance. If there is no clearance here and the stud and pushrod expand then the clutch will not be fully released after the motor warms up.

It's all in the manual. Then readjust the two adjuster at either end of the cable to achieve the correct free play at the handlebar lever.

I'm pretty sure I'm doing it correctly. The one thing I'm not sure about is the helix screw "resistance". If the screw is hitting a rod, I would think that may be more resistance than I'm feeling (unless the rod moves back as I screw in). I've been stopping once the screw doesn't turn as freely and then backing it out 1/4 - 1/2 turn (Clymer specifies that rather than 1/8 to 1/4).

The other possibility if this doesn't fix the problem is with the clutch itself. Bent clutch plates, grooved clutch basket surfaces, plates that will not slide smoothly in the basket and clutch plate surface deterioration. All these things can cause problems in the lower three gears of the transmission when changing gears.

If the adjustment attempts don't address it (and if a new cable isn't likely to fix anything), this seems like the next step. These parts are all accessed on the right side right? So I guess I have to drain the oil again.

[Suzuki_Don]

If the adjustment attempts don't address it (and if a new cable isn't likely to fix anything), this seems like the next step. These parts are all accessed on the right side right? So I guess I have to drain the oil again.

Yes it's the big cover on the right with the oil sight glass in it. Some others on here have said that by leaning the bike over on the sidestand the cover can be taken off without losing any oil, but as you need to inspect everything in the clutch housing I would drain the oil and leave it 24 hours for as much oil as possible to drain off the plates, etc. makes the job a little less messy.