Clutch questions

[scott]

First of all, I probably should have asked: am I hurting anything by riding the bike in this condition? I hope not - I just got my license last month so I've been anxious to actually ride the bike after getting it (sort of) running. I haven't been riding it hard - I'm still just practicing on neighborhood streets. Anyway, I took another ride and have a few more observations.

The shift from 1st to 2nd is almost impossible when the RPMs are above 2K. It may not be a smooth shift, but if the RPMs drop to 1500-2000, it seems to go into 2nd. When the bike is cold and I still have some choke on, the RPMs don't seem to drop that quickly when I pull the clutch in making it particularly hard to get into 2nd. When the bike is warmer (and the choke is off), the RPMs drop quicker so shifting into 2nd is a little easier (again, not smooth or immediate, but it shifts provided I wait for the RPMs to drop).

Does that mean something useful? Thinking about it, it doesn't seem like that's a new piece of information. Not that I know what I'm talking about but it seems to make sense - if the clutch isn't fully engaging, a lower engine speed would make it easier to ... force it into gear, if that's what I'm doing. I've never heard any grinding sounds though.

Also, am I describing the "hanging idle" condition? When the bike is warm and I'm stopped, I'd say the bike is currently idling around 1500 (even though I'd adjusted it to 1100 using the idle screw about a week ago after the bike had warmed up). My understanding is these idle problems are caused by air leaks. For reference, within the last month I have replaced the intake boots themselves and the intake boot o-rings. I also sealed the airbox cover with weather stripping and adjusted the valves. As far as the carbs (dipped/cleaned, o-rings replaced), I'm pretty sure the mixture screws are not set to the ideal position and I haven't synched the carbs yet.

On my old 550T the clutch would get grabby and drag when the engine got hot. It was very hard to find neutral and the shifting was clunky when warm. Took the clutch apart and never could find anything wrong with it. The clutch cable was set tight to make sure the clutch fully releasing but it was still the same.

Hmm - so maybe I have a temperamental clutch and will have to live with it.

as you need to inspect everything in the clutch housing I would drain the oil and leave it 24 hours for as much oil as possible to drain off the plates, etc. makes the job a little less messy.

I'll see if I can find time to tackle it this weekend but I'll probably wait until the clutch springs I ordered arrive. I didn't order a new gasket for the crankcase though - am I going to need one? I don't think I've placed an order for parts without realizing I needed something else a day or two later. If I find out I need new clutch plates or something, I'll have to place another order anyway I guess.

[cowboyup3371]

You aren't really hurting much except making it harder on yourself...at least from what I'm seeing with mine. But, i just ordered a new clutch cable so maybe that will help me out some too.

[Suzuki_Don]

Listen guys this is do-able. Don't tolerate a bad clutch action, it takes the joy out of riding. I wish you lived a bit closer and could have a ride on my 550 and you would see what a smooth clutch action is like. It is not a built in problem you have to live with.

The only time my clutch plays up (and it is expected in this situation) is when I've started the bike and put it into gear for the first time when the motor is cold. And that is because the clutch plates are stuck together with the thicker cold oil. Sometimes it even stalls. But it only does this once to separate the clutch plates and then it operates perfectly.

Pull the clutch and if possible give us some pictures of the clutch plates, clutch basket, and other bits as you pull them. We will try and give advice as you need it. Use a straight edge on the steel plates to check them for straightness. Check both sets of plates, fibre and steels, that they slide easily in their respective grooves in the outer basket or inner drum. Check how much clearance there is between the ears of the fibre plates and the grooves in the basket they slide in. All these specs are in the manual. I had to dress the ears of the new fibres I got from EBC, they were too wide and would not slide freely in the basket. I took about 1/2 mm off each one and as I say my clutch works perfectly now and my motor is putting out between 25 and 30hp more than your motors with no problems now at all.

Keep us updated.

[scott]

Listen guys this is do-able. Don't tolerate a bad clutch action, it takes the joy out of riding. I wish you lived a bit closer and could have a ride on my 550 and you would see what a smooth clutch action is like. It is not a built in problem you have to live with.

The only time my clutch plays up (and it is expected in this situation) is when I've started the bike and put it into gear for the first time when the motor is cold. And that is because the clutch plates are stuck together with the thicker cold oil. Sometimes it even stalls. But it only does this once to separate the clutch plates and then it operates perfectly.

Pull the clutch and if possible give us some pictures of the clutch plates, clutch basket, and other bits as you pull them. We will try and give advice as you need it. Use a straight edge on the steel plates to check them for straightness. Check both sets of plates, fibre and steels, that they slide easily in their respective grooves in the outer basket or inner drum. Check how much clearance there is between the ears of the fibre plates and the grooves in the basket they slide in. All these specs are in the manual. I had to dress the ears of the new fibres I got from EBC, they were too wide and would not slide freely in the basket. I took about 1/2 mm off each one and as I say my clutch works perfectly now and my motor is putting out between 25 and 30hp more than your motors with no problems now at all.

Keep us updated.

I haven't given up. The clutch springs I ordered still haven't arrived so I haven't taken the clutch apart yet. They should arrive before this weekend I think.

I started taking rides outside my neighborhood so I've gotten it up to 4th gear and about 45 MPH now. When the bike really gets warmed up like this, the shifts actually seem really good (even 1st to 2nd) - granted I don't have a whole lot for comparison but it seems correct/smooth. I've had a few rides like this: 3-4 minutes on choke idling followed by maybe a 5-7 minute cruise around my neighborhood to warm up the bike enough to turn off the choke. At this point 1st->2nd shifts are bearable. About 5-10 minutes later, outside my neighborhood, 1st->2nd shifts seem fine.

Of course, on my last ride (my longest to date - maybe 20 miles) it stalled at 2 different stop signs towards the end of the ride. When I got back home, it didn't stall but I noticed the idle was low (900-1000). So I assume the culprit for the stalling is whatever is causing the low idle and not the clutch. Now, why it was idling low all of a sudden ... I have no idea.

I'll post an update when I take the clutch apart.

[clee]

I've been having a similar problem... but not quite the same. I have an '84 GS1150EF and when first starting up I'll put it in gear and the bike wants to pull forward. If I drop it into first or even second I can't get it into any other gear, the plates are not letting go.

For some added info... and this one is a puzzle... when I rev the engine above 3k the plates will free up and it doesn't pull, but as soon as the engine idles down the bike will want to pull again. Also when the bike warms up (5-10mins of riding) everything frees up perfectly. After a couple of hours of not riding the same thing happens all over again.

I've adjusted the clutch cable, and I have changed the oil with Amsoil full synthetic. There is no slipping in the clutch at all.

There is supposedly a high performance aftermarket clutch in it now (I don't know the brand). I'm planning on taking the clutch apart for a look but I don't know what to expect. Does anyone know how many friction and metal plates I should have in the 1150? Is there anything else I should look for?

Any/all advice would be appreciated.

[cowboyup3371]

Clee, you'd be better off starting your own thread so you get the right kinds of looks. Sometimes people won't come back to an old thread and I personally would hate to see this forgot about.

I would verify your clutch cable adjustment first. But I know of some others who can give you better advice after that.

[clee]

Thanks,
I was unsure about starting a new thread, but you make a good point. I couldn't find anything that exactly matched my problem so I'll go ahead and start a new one and hopefully get some help