Clutch Problem

[Kevin GS1100]

Ok, so before I buy a new starter I wanted to check the clutch. The big nut in the middle I could move with my fingers so I bent the tab away and tried to tighten. The clutch moves when I try to tighten the clutch so I can't get it real tight. Is ther a trick to this? The sound that heard seemed to definitely come from the left side but now I think that it might have clutch rattle. Could the sound of clutch rattle carry through to the other side? I'm not sure if I should replace the starter or put all back together after I figure out how to tighten that nut and hope that the clutch rattle is the problem. I'm lost. Any advice out there?

[niclpnut]

The idle gear does float there and is held in place by the cover and the other gears, so that's normal.

There should be two washers/spacers, one on the inside and one on the outside of the gear as pictured (#3):





A little wear on the starter throw is normal. To remove it you are correct. The two bolts hold it in place and you simply pull it back out.

The Inner clutch hub will spin so you have to make or acquire a tool to hold it in place when you tighten the hub nut, or just use an impact gun.

Link here on the topic: http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...ght=clutch+hub

Also, a good thing to get is a heavy duty hub nut...offered from Ape:

http://gszone.biz/clutches.html

and other vendors.

If it's loose enough it sure can make a lot of noise, cause vibration and can hamper clutch operation.

Nic

[Kevin GS1100]

Ok, I got everything back together. I tightened up the nut on the clutch side everything else looked great concerning the clutch and I didn't do anything to the stator side. I still have the rattle! while I had the covers off I polished them up nice so Im not too disappointed in having to do all of that work and still have the same problem. I guess my next move is going to be to buy a new stater and hope that the spline on the old one is just worn down soo much that it causing the idle gear to be too loose and rattle. I found one for $175 which seems like a good price although I do not want to spend this money and find out that it's not the problem. any way, can I replace the starter without removing the stator cover? If you have any other suggestions before I order this I would love to hear them. Thanks for your help.

[gearhead13]

The only time the starter or reduction gear move is when you are starting it, they are connected to a one-way clutch on the crankshaft. So, I doubt that is where your rattle is coming from.
I would check your cam chain tensioner, cam chains can rattle quite bad.

[Kevin GS1100]

Ok, it has an automatic cam chain adjuster on it but I went out and loosened the lock nut and tried to turn the set screw clockwise, I couldn't turn it, it was tight on the shaft so I backed it off a 1/4 turn and set the lock nut making sure the set screw stayed in position. I turned the crank over by hand a couple of times and then started it. It still rattles. I did a valve job this spring and took notice the chain seemed good but is there any other way to check that it working properly without removing the tensioner? Can you think of any other possibilities? thanks for your help on this it seems that could be a possibility but the noise progressed so fast I would think you would here something like this progress a little slower if it were chain stretch.

[gearhead13]

Ok, it has an automatic cam chain adjuster on it but I went out and loosened the lock nut and tried to turn the set screw clockwise, I couldn't turn it, it was tight on the shaft so I backed it off a 1/4 turn and set the lock nut making sure the set screw stayed in position. I turned the crank over by hand a couple of times and then started it. It still rattles. I did a valve job this spring and took notice the chain seemed good but is there any other way to check that it working properly without removing the tensioner? Can you think of any other possibilities? thanks for your help on this it seems that could be a possibility but the noise progressed so fast I would think you would here something like this progress a little slower if it were chain stretch.

Have you rechecked your valve lash since your valve job?
Not chain stretch, but a failing chain tensioner. I took my old one apart and it was all gummed up inside, messed with it for a while, then just bought a manual tensioner.

[Kevin GS1100]

I havnt checked valve lash. I'm not sure how to do that. My clearances are in specs. It dosn't sound like valve noise. It's more of a rattle and sounds like it's lower in the block. I am tempted to take that tensioner off to make sure that it is working correctly after being locked in one position for so long. Do I have to remove the carbs to get that tensioner off? The bolts look difficult to get to.

[gearhead13]

You did a valve job but you dont know how to check valve lash? hmmmm What did this valve job consist of?
It is possible to take it off without removing the carbs, just remember to lock it in position before removing it.
Once you get it on the bench, you can check it for proper operation, clean it out etc.

[Kevin GS1100]

Sorry, didn't do valve job, I ment that I adjusted the valves. I need to get my terms right I know. I think I will try taking that cam chain adjuster off in the next couple days and make sure that it is working right. I am waiting on a washer that I can not find anywhere locally. When I had my stator replaced at a shop a couple years ago they must have not have replaced one of the washers that go to the idle gear that is between the starter a stator. There is only one on the outside of the gear and not one on the inside. I'm not convinced that the noise is not coming from that gear. I understand that it does not move after starting but engine vibration could still make it rattle right. I'll look though the forum to figure out how to get the adjuster off. My washer was special ordered, 14 days! I'm going to try one more place locally tomorrow but I'm afraid I won't find out for sure that that is problem unless I replace the starter because the splines are now worn giving the gear even more room to wiggle. The only other thing I can think of is it something in the crank case. I'm not going there!

[hjfisk]

I may be way off base but it sounds to me like your clutch basket is worn, there are springs for dampening on the back side of the basket and after a while they tend to get sloppy in there and rattle around. Use the search option and you will find some interesting reading on the subject.

[Kevin GS1100]

Would this be heard from the left side of the engine? I can't get over the fact that working hard on the clutch when the noise is coming from the other side, however, when I had the clutch cover off and tighten up the big nut I did notice that there was a little wiggle in the basket. Is that normal?

[Kevin GS1100]

Ok, as much as I hate to, I think I'm gong to try and remove the starter clutch. No one has suggested this being my problem but from what I have read in different threads it seems like my symtoms point to the starter clutch. Let me state these symptoms one more time so I can hear any other opinions. The rattle that I'm hearing is comming from the left side of the bike. It is most pronounced when at low idle and even worse when I put it gear and start letting out the clutch (bringing the idle down) or riding slowly with clutch all the way out at low RPM. It does not go away when I pull the clutch in or when it is in neutral. It does go away after reaching 3-4 RPM under load of riding. I'll add that I often hear a light to moderate clank comming from that left side when I shut the bike off. It seems like a difficult project so if I'm wrong and there is no way that this is my problem please tell me. Again thanks for all your insight. I know that I will need a puller (any suggestion?) and if there any parts that I can preorder that are likely to be bad fill me in. I have to get this thing back on the road!

[Agemax]

if the starter clutch is knackered, chances are it wont work when starting the bike. have you got the cover off? if the flywheel is loose on the crank you should be able to remove it by hand,also have you checked for bearing play on the gearbox output shaft?

[Kevin GS1100]

I put the cover back on after checking to make sure that the nut that holds on the flywheel was tight. It was tight and there was no action in the flywheel at all. Just the proper rotation in one direction. I did not take the flywheel off at that time to check the starter clutch and the only thing I noticed was some wear on the starter spline along with a missing washer in the back of that reduction gear between the starter and stator. I'll read up and check for bearing play but it seems like the noise is comming closer to the front of the engine.

[Kevin GS1100]

So I finally pulled the flywheel. I rented the tool at rent-a-tool.com to pull the flywheel. It was $15 plus a $55 refundable deposit. That seemed better then buying it for $50. When I pulled the flywheel and looked at the starter clutch I saw the three bolts holding the clutch to the flywheel were all loose allowing the starter clutch to rattle. I caught the problem in time that there was not any damage to the bolts from backing out. I put it all back together and the sound was gone. I'm back on the road.