Shimidy Shim shim - valve adjustment help?

[SilverBulletGS]

I checked my valve clearance today as I'm simultaneously cleaning carbs, re-wiring, and doing pretty much everything except an engine rebuild so that I can crank this baby up asap.

This is my 1st time doing a valve job on a vintage motorcycle. Here are my questions:

In the picture, I an sliding my .038 mm feelder gauge under the lobes. As the manuals don't show this, or don't show it well - am I doing this right?

I got the cam positioning down and here's what I came up with [KEY: NC= no clearance MS= Moveable with screwdriver (too tight to move by hand, so I stuck a small screwdriver in the divits to see if it would rotate)]

#1 Exhaust: .08 clearance *Good
#2 #3 & #4 Intake and exhaust: NC/MS

It appears that all except 1 are out of limits. Trouble is I don't know what size shims to get because they're ALL too tight and I can't take them all out. Any way I can do this without buying a special tool, maybe rent?

If so, how exactly do I find out what shim sizes I need without pulling them all out? ( a picture would really help )

I would imagine this would be a very very slow process in determining which shims I need ONE AT A TIME, removing, waiting for the right one to arrive, then doing the next 7 Times?!?!?!?

There's gotta be an easier way without breaking the bank? And also a way to find out the intel (what shims I need)?

Also, on a side note. When doing a compression test, I just need to starting system to turn the bike over right? I don't need the carbs on, just double checking?

Thanks in advance.

[BigD_83]

One way to go about testing is to get hold of a super-thin (e.g. 215) test shim and measure your clearances from that.

The photo you have attached makes it look like the cam lobe is pointing DOWN. There are some differences between models as far as 8V and 16V goes, and even differences between the Suzuki Manual and the Clymer, but it should either be UP Vertical or Horizontal. The way you have inserted the feeler gauge looks correct. You want to be able to pull he gauge out with a little resistance.

As for your compression test, you should probably have everything buttoned up for your best testing, but the goal is to pull air into the cylinder and compress it. Having no carbs on should be a close enough approximation to wide-open throttle (WOT)

[Flyboy]

Firstly, have a look at Basscliff's website for the tutorial on how to do your shims using the zip tie method, no tool required, many members here use it with great success.
Normally if you can rotate the shim but not get a feeler gauge in, you need to go down one size, if you cant rotate the shim, you need to go down two sizes, but that is just a rule of thumb, not hard and fast, sounds like you are looking at two sizes.
The best thing to do is to pull all the shims out, and swop them around, you may find one of the valves has a shim that is two sizes thinner than another and you can swop it out, so juggle them around and you will find that at the end of it all you only have to replace a few shims.
Also look up the shim club here, and you can get the shims you need on a swop out basis.
Check what shim you have in the valve with the correct clearance, you could use it as a check shim on the other valves to get the sizes you need.
Drop Steve an email for his world famous valve adjustment spreadsheet to make your life easier and keep track of your valve clearances.
Don't rotate the cams without a shim in the bucket, you will do damage.
Hope this helps a bit.

[keman]

I have heard that a gold dollar coin will fit to protect your buckets if you have to rotate the cam with a shim out.

I have not tried this, nor do I know if its actually OK to turn the cam with a gold dollar in place of a shim.

Hoping someone can either confirm or deny this. (Where are Adam and Jamie when we need them? )

[Steve]

Yep, that spreadsheet is a wonderful tool, at least that's what I have heard from many of the 557 that have already received it.

By the way, since you are using INCH feelers with metric approximations, please report your clearances in inches.

Drop Steve an email for his world famous valve adjustment spreadsheet to make your life easier and keep track of your valve clearances.

Look down here.

.

[BassCliff]

Hi,

I use the "official" tappet tool to remove my shims but many here use the "zip tie" method. Take your shims out one at a time and measure them with your digital calipers. If the number is not worn off, many shims will have the size printed on one side. Do NOT turn the engine with shims removed. See the valve adjustment guide (8 valve) on my little website for lots more information. Z1 has the best prices on shims ($5.64 each). Once you inventory your shims and know your clearances, you can guesstimate the shims you will need for future adjustments and order ahead of time. The Shim Club is a handy resource too. Keep us informed.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[SilverBulletGS]

So I don't have to have the cam in a certain position to pull all shims and swip swap w/o rotating the engine w/ no shims?

[cowboyup3371]

So I don't have to have the cam in a certain position to pull all shims and swip swap w/o rotating the engine w/ no shims?

English please?

You DO NOT want to turn the engine without shims in every spot or you risk damaging things.

[BassCliff]

Hi,

As long as the cam lobe is not pushing down on the shim/bucket, you should be able to remove the shim using the tappet tool. But DO NOT turn the engine if any shims are missing. I don't think you will be able to remove all of the shims at the same time.

Be methodical. Inventory your shims. Then see if you can move any around to get better clearances. Then order (or contact the Shim Club) to get what you need.

Have you read the entire valve adjustment guide on my website?


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[Mattias44]

The gold dollar coins worked beautifully on my 850. They are thinner than the smallest shims, but just thick enough to keep the lobe off the edges of the bucket. The metal they are made of (mostly zinc) is soft enough that you wont have to worry about their faces damaging the lobe.

+1 on the rule for going 1 size up when you can spin the bucket (with your fingers) and 2 sizes when you cannot.

+1 on using a digital caliper/micrometer to measure the REAL shim thicknesses.

+1 on using the ZipTie method.

[Steve]

+1 on the rule for going 1 size up when you can spin the bucket (with your fingers) and 2 sizes when you cannot.

Actually, you want to go 1 size DOWN, not up.

.

[keman]

I think I must own a magical shim tool. .. When I did my shims it worked without a slip. Are they supposed to be hard to use? I guess I just don't see how pulling the plugs and fishing a zip tie into the cylinder can be easier?

[Mattias44]

Actually, you want to go 1 size DOWN, not up.

.

Thanks Steve, I was at work when I typed that and, as usual, was probably in a zombie-like daze

[Steve]

I think I must own a magical shim tool. .. When I did my shims it worked without a slip. Are they supposed to be hard to use? I guess I just don't see how pulling the plugs and fishing a zip tie into the cylinder can be easier?

Well, we obviously balance each other out.

I find it easier to turn the engine when the plugs are pulled, and you probably want to check them, anyway.

Once you get the feel of how to slide the zip-tie into place, it goes rather quickly.

This past weekend, I showed Vmass how the official tool was supposed to work and was very surprised to actually have it work for me.
I then showed him how the zip-tie method worked, and he did not think it was all that hard.

Usually when I try it, it will either slip off the side or cover the edge of the shim so it can't be removed.

Yeah, you end up turning the crank a few more times, but that comes in handy if you change a shim, as it presses it down, into place, a few times while you are checking the other shims.

.

[1948man]

I think I must own a magical shim tool. .. When I did my shims it worked without a slip. Are they supposed to be hard to use? I guess I just don't see how pulling the plugs and fishing a zip tie into the cylinder can be easier?

You may have magical buckets. The bevel on the side of my buckets is pronounced enough so that the tool is really prone to slip off but I finally figured out a way to make it work fairly well.