GS750EX 81 to 83 GS750ES Engine

[xjandgs]

You might want to do some research on oil. Synthetic oil holds up to high temperatures much better than dino oil; it maintains it's film strength and doesn't flash off as readily at high temps. Given that our bikes are air cooled and the oil temperature will routinely crest 320+F during summer riding, and your engine has a weak oiling system which means only a minimum amount of oil may get to the top end during the heat of summer, using synthetic oil may very well save those camshafts and rocker arms, if you were to choose to use it that is. Do what you want but implying synthetic oil only useful to those that abuse their engines shows how uninformed you are.

No it shows I am not some uptight anal A-Hole who tries to imply they are the know all and end all to motorcycles. Nor am I paranoid and a worrisome type as you. Synthetic oils may have their place and may even be better - I never implied they were not but in my opinion if you care for your stuff and take care of your stuff by doing regular maintenance you will be fine. I bought a Ford Ranger in 1989 and used non-synthetic oil from day one using Penzoil's basic oil and sold my truck with 190,000 of event free engine trouble - same with my Ford Focus with 170,000 miles put on by me. SIMPLY PUT - synthetic oil may be better but it is overkill and overstated just like those who have fuel that simply needs to run on unleaded gas but due to being WHAT I CONSIDER YOU TO BE, THE ANAL TYPE AND OVERLY WORRISOME AND CAUTIOUS (AND IN YOUR SPECIFIC CASE) - the type thinking your (you know what does not smell) probably put Premium unleaded in it and preach to everybody how much better it rides, how much better mileage you get and just how great and smart you THINK you are. Just b/c I asked you a question about the fact that I like others was getting the buzzing sound from my signal relay when my right blinker was on but not flashing showing I am willing and not afraid to ask questions when I need to, does not suddenly make you in my eyes somebody I look to for advice in other areas or consider to be the authority on other things (and quite frankly you are not even for the question I asked (as your answer was rather pathetic). So to those who chose synthetic oil, as I said before, more the power to them, but for some strange dude from Torrance to call into question my knowledge because I chose not to shows not only are you ignorant, but clearly you are stupid. You obviously do not like being called out even in the least bit which is why you had to rebut my very first post and could not stop rebutting ever since. I love playing with your type - actually kind of fun in sick perverse sort of way.

So Nessy (Superstar Rock Star) let's get to the basic facts (and forget all of the red herrings you have been tossing out there to avoid the simple truths). You can't stand a differing opinion than yours nor can you simply agree to disagree with someone. You think you are too good for that. You and another (especially that other person who I was referring to in my first post) said the 81 GS 750 Engine was "no good." I said (voicing the opposite opinion) it was a great engine. This should have been the end of it. Damn Man it is a UJM GS Engine from the 80's (come on - wake up). So why are we discussing same and why are you suddenly giving me all of this unsolicited advice? I will tell you why b/c obviously this site and your false belief that you are something special is the key to your pathetic life. Sorry but it is true. You can't stand an alternative opinion which has as much merit as your own and because of this try to attack by offering unwanted and unsolicited advice to somebody that (FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH) currently owns 4 motorcycles and has ridden non-stop since the age of 16 when purchasing a brand new Nighthawk 650 in 1983 - not to mention somebody that commutes 100 miles round trip every day in Maine from pretty much the end of March to the beginning of December (weighing on safety first based on roads being free of sand, snow and ice). It's pretty sad and quite honestly kind of pathetic don't you think that you feel the need to do this with me (and I am sure if I review your posts probably several others)? How do you have time to stay up all night doing this? I thankfully type fast. Do you? Or are you pecking away one key at a time to inflate your already overinflated ego. Off to work now... On my 1982 GS 750EZ DOCH 16 valve engine, 5 speed transmission, chain driven, with triple disc AND non-synthetic (MOTORCYCLE OIL)... (STILL LAUGH AT YOU AND YOUR "DON'T USE AUTOMOBILE OIL" IMPLICATION/ Like no s---t) ... fueled by regular unlead gas. So don't post back, but my gut is you will b/c you are ADDICTED TO THIS CRAP. Oh and don't be a sally and have one of your girlfriends post back either. To fight your fight for you. Thank Nessim for (hopefully) and finally absorbing some general truths not only about the wonderful GS engine but about your obviously very delicate psyche.

[Nessism]

xjandgs,

You are wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin...so I won't. Your rambling, illogical, filled with assumptions and insults post shows what kind of man you are. Lets leave it at that.

If you care to LEARN about GS bikes, and their specific strengths and weaknesses, you are in the right place. There are lots of people around here that have vast knowledge earned though doing, not assuming. Good luck.

[haztoys]

xjandgs,

You are wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin...so I won't. Your rambling, illogical, filled with assumptions and insults post shows what kind of man you are. Lets leave it at that.

If you care to LEARN about GS bikes, and their specific strengths and weaknesses, you are in the right place. There are lots of people around here that have vast knowledge earned though doing, not assuming. Good luck.

Nessism ...Mr Xjandgs is right on alot of points on oil ...And your points are off on a mess of them...Synthetic oil is all about the CAFE Law that no one ever knows about or looks up ...And goes nuts when ever I bring it up... And I have a vast knowledge earned by doing hands on and schooling ...Not part time hobby ...But full time job ...

Shocking what people will believe what car makers and oil company's say ..LOL...

Once a vehicle maker says "This new Tech is better then sliced bread" they never and can't back off it until they either Tech it so much it works out ..Or time moves on and new Tech replaces it ...Sh^%$T like Fords twin I beams ..Hondas oval pistons ...GM Quad 4..Mitsubishi composite trans blocker rings ..and I can go on for days ...

Do to my back ground I get to play in Aircraft Skunk works and a oil lab a good friend owns ...Shocking the BS oil companys and vehicle makers are feeding us...

[7981GS]

"And now, for something completely different..."

[xjandgs]

I could go on and on on my tirade, but I won't waste any more time with that. I will just share with you Nessim: to use an analogy, spring water may be better than tap water, but that does not mean one suddenly has to start drinking spring water or their hearts will explode. If you chose to pay for that right, go for it - again all the power to you. Just like synthetic oil. There are those vehicles that have oil changes recommended to be done at (for example) 5,000 mile intervals and you will always have that one guy who tells you he changes his oil religiously at 1,000 miles. I think to myself - "not only a waste of money but a waste of time" and you did your engine "no great favor," but I keep it to myself because that his choice and his right. Cars and motorcycles were and have been running just fine all these years without synthetic oil. If I thought it added "real" value I would buy it, but I don't believe it does so I choose not to. That certainly does not mean I am this REBEL riding around his GS in this dangerous game of testing fate. It means I trust a tried and proved lubricant to work its wonders in my engine. I also stated if suddenly my bike were to have this "so-called" known engine problem then I am fairly confident your recommendation of synthetic oil would make no difference whatsoever. So if you are the type that needs that to hold your hat on more the power to you. I don't.

So my ramblings and insults were to you, for one specific reason and one reason only, because they were warranted. I offered a different opinion: stating that the 1981 GS 750 16 valve engine is a good engine and "not a bad engine" as was stated in this string as this question was broached by someone (he got two responses by you and another). That really should have been it. Instead, I got from you a lecture and a tirade on what oil I should use for my bike, and all of this other egotistical advice. I am always appreciatiave of advice and as I stated earlier have no problem asking for advice in areas I need it. But being a guy who got his first street motorcycle at 16 and has been changing his own oil in all his vehicles for the past 29 years (accumalating massive amounts of mileage on several vehicles in the process) and not once using synthetic oil without ever have a problem and actually instead having quite the opposite effect of very well running engines (car and motorcycles), this information was not only not solicited but not wanted.

You then went onto call into question my knowledge because I said synthetics are a good choice for those who may tend to go outside of the recommended interval for an oil change as it does not break down the same as traditional fossil fuel.

That was uncalled for and honestly showed to me your character. I confess, my response was a bit sophmoric, but honestly I have no regrets b/c I have seen and read post by your type on here several times (thankfully most are not like you) and was sick of not responding.

So again in the end. This is a simple subject: A guy asks an opinion on whether a 1981 GS 750 egine would fit in his 83 GS 750 frame and he has two people that said that engine sucks. I told him I have a similar engine and it is good. Why from that you start offering all of this advice on oil to me and going on and on is a question only you can answer.

I hope you can honestly recognize a simple truth: Opinions are like *******s, everyone has one, but only *******s try to shove them down another's throat. (Made that up myself - I did)...

So that being said: Let's agree to disagree and move on from this subject and should either of us have a differing opinion in a post let's just recognize we have differing views and leave it at that.

Thank you.

[koolaid_kid]

Has anyone took a 1981 GS750EX engine and installed it in a 83 GS750ES Frame? Thanks Tom Would it fit with modifications? Thanks Tom

922toms, are you aware that the 83 750s were a new, updated design? This is why going backwards would not be an ideal answer. Most likely they also changed the frame, mounting points, etc.

not even close to a bolt in.
a GSXR engine would be better suited.

922toms, this is a real, unbiased answer. The new design carried on for several years, at least 86 & perhaps even 87. An air/oil cooled GSXR engine would be even better if it is an easy bolt-in.

[Larry D]

As you can see in my signature, I too, have this engine. And, I too, absolutely love it !!! My bike screams and is a blast to ride !!!

However, the '80-'82 750's have top-end oiling problems. Not only does the oil pump need shimmed, the internal oiling passages themselves are designed differently from the previous and latter 750's

I changed the oil regularly and kept in running in tip-top shape, as several members here can attest to, however, this still happened. I have no doubt that you have years of experience with motorcycles, but, there are several members here that know EXACTLY what they are talking about. Here's some photographic evidence for you.

[xjandgs]

"And now, for something completely different..."

I like you already

[xjandgs]

[QUOTE=Larry D;1663696]As you can see in my signature, I too, have this engine. And, I too, absolutely love it !!! My bike screams and is a blast to ride !!!

However, the '80-'82 750's have top-end oiling problems. Not only does the oil pump need shimmed, the internal oiling passages themselves are designed differently from the previous and latter 750's

I changed the oil regularly and kept in running in tip-top shape, as several members here can attest to, however, this still happened. I have no doubt that you have years of experience with motorcycles, but, there are several members here that know EXACTLY what they are talking about. Here's some photographic evidence for you.






Thank you for a nice email with a nice offering of friendly information. That I appreciate,

It's amazing how a tone and offering of friendly advice feels so different than somebody trying to force feed you... Much appreciated.

[Larry D]

No problem. I don't think it was any more or less friendly than the anyone else's posts.......but, keep in mind, the typed word is often not how it would come across in person, all the inflection and emphasis sometimes seems misplaced when sentences are typed.

There are alot of very, very helpful and knowledgable folks here who are willing to share their experiences.

[Nessism]

It's a FACT that air cooled GS engines can run HOT. They can run VERY hot in fact when stuck in traffic where there is very little air flowing over the engine. My bike, which has an oil temperature gauge, routinely runs over 300F, and I've seen as hot as 330F. We have had a number of posts here where members have commented about getting stuck in traffic on a hot day and their engines started to spew out lots of white/blue exhaust smoke. I believe in these instances their oil was flashing off into vapor which is a very undesirable condition.

It's a FACT that synthetic oil has a higher flash point and is more viscosity stable at high temperatures. This means that it will protect your engine better than mineral oil in those EXTREME instances - such as getting stuck in bumper to bumper traffic with the air temp over 90F. Does this mean that you need synthetic oil? Of course not. My belief though is that synthetic oil is a reasonable risk mitigation method just in case, which is why I use it and recommend it.

It's a FACT that the 2nd generation GS750 engine has oiling system problems. Suzuki promoted a dealership fix to shim the oil pressure relief spring to help mitigate this risk. Does this mean that all 2nd gen GS750 engines are going to fail? Of course not, but dismissing this history is just plain dumb.

I don't think there is a significant connection between synthetic oil and CAFE (fuel economy), although that may be where the thought began. If CAFE were a prime driver for use of synthetic oil, then more OEM auto companies would spec the stuff, but they don't. The OEM's are using THINNER oil these days, presumably to save gas, but there isn't a whole lot of synthetic oil being used as far as I know. In the automotive world the primary driver behind using synthetic oil is extended drain intervals. BMW has a free maintenance program, and they spec synthetic oil because it extends the drain interval to 10,000 miles, thus they save money. For car owners that maintain their vehicles decently and don't care about extending their change interval, then synthetic oil provides no real benefits. But don't confuse this with no benefit on an air cooled motorcycle.

Oh, and I worked in the engineering department of a major OEM automotive company for 21 years, so I have a little background that helped form my views on these matters. I've seen a LOT of oil related engine failures in my day, which helped form my views on oil.

Some may think my personal style is abrasive at times, and they would be right, but the fact remains that what I say (most of the time) is technically correct. I'm not here to hold everyone's hand and pat them on the back, but I do try to dispense with useful information from time to time.

[xjandgs]

Let's all FORGET about the oil debate being raised by Mr. Narcissism --- I mean Nessim (sorry Ness - I could not resist that play with words)...

The entire string was started when somebody asked if a 81 GS 750 engine would fit into an 83 frame (presumbably b/c he has his eye on that engine). He did not ask if the engine was good or bad. Somebody offered it was "AN AWFUL ENGINE." Then Nessim got involved. I chimed in a counter view (as I have the 82 version of this 16 valve engine) that it was a great engine - and from that I have Nessim telling me about all of its problems which are good and well, but telling me I am essentially negligble for not using synthetic oil and on and on.

And I quote - from this very own webiste in pertinent part as follows (when this site describes in its section - the History of the GS Engine:

"...The 2-valve-per-cylinder-powered bikes are recognized by experts as the most reliable, bulletproof engines the world has ever seen, closely followed by the air-cooled 4-valve-per-cylinder-GS's.

These classic engines have True Grit: no matter what happens, they will take you home."


Why is the GS engine so utterly bullet-proof?


Basically, there are three aspects that set the GS engine apart from its contemporaries:

• The first is the fact that the crankshaft runs in roller bearings, which is quite complex (and expensive) to build, and which caters for a long engine life and for high resistance to uneven or higher load on the crankshaft. (Note: this goes for most models, but the GS450 engines are a noted exception, they aren't blessed with roller bearings)
• The second is that the lubrication is basically designed as a low-pressure job, which does not suffer as much from poor

• pressure, cold engine oil and clogged channels.

• The third is that, contrary to contemporary habits, there is a lot of reserve built into the design. The market demand for space and weight saving was not as large as it is in these FireBlade and GSXR750W days, and so the engineers of these bikes didn't have to drill iron out of the design to make the bikes marketable...
  

So did I pass misinformation on to this intial person defending this engine. If I did as is implied by Ness... then so isn't this entire website by that existing article/page.

Which is it - I ask. Is this not the "followed very closely by the 16 valve engine" to the 8 valve as being bullet proof or is it a disaster waiting to happen as Ness would have us believe?

[Nessism]

So did I pass misinformation on to this intial person defending this engine.

The 2nd gen 750 has a PLAIN bearing crank. NOT roller bearing
The 2nd gen 750 engine has a HIGH pressure oiling system, NOT low pressure like the roller bearing engines
The 2nd gen 750 engine is the worst of all GS engines when it comes to durability.

Your engine was one of the first Suzuki designed with plain bearings, and frankly they screwed up the design of the oiling system.

I don't care if you want to ignore this fact, but my suggestion to people that do care about reducing the risk of engine failure is 1) shim the pressure relief spring, 2) use either diesel or motorcycle grade synthetic oil

[xjandgs]

Geez:

Maybe you should have the website's engine history updated b/c it sounds like per your investigative research and experience there should be one big old asterisk with it.

Any engine is capable of failure - plain and simple - my initial response had little to do with you but more in response to the first person who said it is a "bad engine." I said it is not and stand by that. The 1980-82 engine is a solid engine. Let's stay on point and not get side tracked with you and your synthetic oil... I could care less that you think I should use synthetic... Tell somebody that cares.

This website claims it is a solid engine as you can see from what I quoted below in my earlier post ...

So if you want to dispute my claim on this engine being good, you may also want to talk to the author of that article or the person responsible for this webpage and let him or her know there is a blatant error in his article so you can save the vast majority of us rather than a few here reading this post....

[koolaid_kid]

Would it be possible to stop all the bickering and get back on topic? Please?
The OP wanted to know if the engine would fit.
Blowerbike said it would take a lot, lot of work, and that a later model engine would be a much better choice. Rapidray said with enough money anything could be made to fit.
I really think that answers the question.
922toms, do you have any other questions?