Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Valve shim question

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Valve shim question

    78 1000. I did the shims last December and then 4-5 weeks ago I checked them again because I was having a few issues with one of the cylinders. I was surprised that some of the shims needed swapping, a bit tight if I remember correctly. The bike had a strange tick noise in the last week so I pulled the valve cover off to check things and 4 of them were well on the loose side of 0.08. Anyone have thoughts on why this would be? I should be getting several thousand KMs out of a shim job.
    Rob
    1983 1100ES, 98' ST1100, 02' DR-Z400E and a few other 'bits and pieces'
    Are you on the GSR Google Earth Map yet? http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=170533

    #2
    I try to get them between .05 and .08.
    So what is wrong with it?

    Eric

    Comment


      #3
      There was an odd ticking noise coming from the #2 area. Thought timing chain but it was rebuilt last year and checked out fine when I looked at things tonight. How do you get your shims in that narrow band? the shims are .05
      Last edited by azr; 07-12-2012, 02:23 AM.
      Rob
      1983 1100ES, 98' ST1100, 02' DR-Z400E and a few other 'bits and pieces'
      Are you on the GSR Google Earth Map yet? http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=170533

      Comment


        #4
        When TimTom left here the other day, we even used some of the oddball shims to get his bike damn near perfect. (2.57 & 2.62)
        Both of the outer cylinders had the same clearances and so did the center two. (within .01 of each other)

        Eric

        Comment


          #5
          The "X" shims are plus 0.02 as Eric says. I used the Shim club, opened it up, measured & got Ghost GS to grind them all to the exact right sizes to put everything on max tolerance last time I did it.

          I am not expecting to do it again for 15k miles....

          Usually I would expect a valve to close up 0.01 about every 4k miles. You have to get a feel for your bike.

          The fact that they went tight & then loose suggests to me that the middle "tight" reading was perhaps a false reading. Did you do it the Suzuki way or the Clymer way? After replacing a shim I try to rotate the engine a couple of revolutions to settle it in before I measure.

          1980 GS1000G - Sold
          1978 GS1000E - Finished!
          1980 GS550E - Fixed & given to a friend
          1983 GS750ES Special - Sold
          2009 KLR 650 - Sold - gone to TX!
          1982 GS1100G - Rebuilt and finished. - Sold
          2009 TE610 - Dual Sporting around dreaming of Dakar..... - FOR SALE!

          www.parasiticsanalytics.com

          TWINPOT BRAKE UPGRADE LINKY: http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...e-on-78-Skunk/

          Comment


            #6
            Another possibility is that, during the first reading, there might have been a bit of crud under the edge of the valve, holding it open just a bit. Some time before the second reading (while the engine was running for how many miles?), the crud left, leaving just a bit more clearance.



            How long have you had the bike? How many valve adjustments have you made on it? Have you seen any trends in valve clearance?
            There is some guy here that offers a spreadsheet that helps keep track of that kind of stuff.
            He has information about it in his signature.

            .
            sigpic
            mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
            hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
            #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
            #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
            Family Portrait
            Siblings and Spouses
            Mom's first ride
            Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
            (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Steve View Post
              Another possibility is that, during the first reading, there might have been a bit of crud under the edge of the valve, holding it open just a bit. Some time before the second reading (while the engine was running for how many miles?), the crud left, leaving just a bit more clearance.



              How long have you had the bike? How many valve adjustments have you made on it? Have you seen any trends in valve clearance?
              There is some guy here that offers a spreadsheet that helps keep track of that kind of stuff.
              He has information about it in his signature.

              .
              Your spread sheet I remember getting that 5 years ago with my first GS, I had such high hopes for myself and keeping organized and all. It would be such a help with situations like these but alas I live my wrenching life constantly a little (or maybe it's a lot) scattered. I've had this bike rebuilt and on the road for over two years now. I took it to last years Rally at Bruce's so it's had some serious mileage put on her. Last December was the second shim job I had done since putting her back on the road, everything seemed normal for the amount of KM's I had put on last season. As far as 'crud' being in there. I never opened the engine up during the rebuild but a month or so ago on BigT's recommendation I used some oil additive to help loosen up some possibly sticking oil flow rings, and it worked like a hot dang, maybe that had an impact? When I'm doing valves I usually do it the Cliff way and always rotate the engine several times and recheck every shim before I button things up again. The one BIG difference with my technique now is I'm using the valve shim tool instead of the twist tie method. Way faster. One question, after doing a shim job is it normal to have the shims seat a 'bit' more once the engine has been run a bit?
              Rob
              1983 1100ES, 98' ST1100, 02' DR-Z400E and a few other 'bits and pieces'
              Are you on the GSR Google Earth Map yet? http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=170533

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by azr View Post
                The bike had a strange tick noise in the last week so I pulled the valve cover off to check things and 4 of them were well on the loose side of 0.08.
                Better looser than tighter. If you can get the other 4 that way you should be able to go awhile before the next check!
                sigpic
                Steve
                "The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page." :cool:
                _________________
                '79 GS1000EN
                '82 GS1100EZ

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by azr View Post
                  The one BIG difference with my technique now is I'm using the valve shim tool instead of the twist tie method. Way faster. One question, after doing a shim job is it normal to have the shims seat a 'bit' more once the engine has been run a bit?
                  As Tim Tom will tell you, I always rotate the engine at least 3 times after changing all of the shims and then check them again.
                  Hopefully, 3 times is enough to get them all to seat and usually at least one seems to need another shim to be even closer to your goal.

                  Eric

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by azr View Post
                    Your spread sheet I remember getting that 5 years ago with my first GS,
                    Yep, in a couple weeks, it will be 5 years since I sent out the first copies, but I don't see your name on the list until January, 2011.


                    Originally posted by azr View Post
                    One question, after doing a shim job is it normal to have the shims seat a 'bit' more once the engine has been run a bit?
                    When I am done changing shims, I will hit the starter button and hold it for about 5 seconds so the cams will beat the shims into submission several times, then re-check clearances before putting the cover back on.

                    .
                    sigpic
                    mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
                    hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
                    #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
                    #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
                    Family Portrait
                    Siblings and Spouses
                    Mom's first ride
                    Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
                    (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Steve View Post
                      Yep, in a couple weeks, it will be 5 years since I sent out the first copies, but I don't see your name on the list until January, 2011.



                      When I am done changing shims, I will hit the starter button and hold it for about 5 seconds so the cams will beat the shims into submission several times, then re-check clearances before putting the cover back on.

                      .

                      That's weird, I'm sure it was a few years before 2011. I should really find that email again and put it too good use. If you hit the starter button doesn't that send oil spitting everywhere?
                      Rob
                      1983 1100ES, 98' ST1100, 02' DR-Z400E and a few other 'bits and pieces'
                      Are you on the GSR Google Earth Map yet? http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=170533

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by azr View Post
                        That's weird, I'm sure it was a few years before 2011.
                        If you don't find it, let me know, I'll send you another one.


                        Originally posted by azr View Post
                        If you hit the starter button doesn't that send oil spitting everywhere?
                        It oozes out from under the cam bearing caps, but there is nothing "spitting" or even "squirting".
                        And the cams are not turning fast enough to splash in the pools that are around the buckets.

                        .
                        sigpic
                        mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
                        hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
                        #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
                        #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
                        Family Portrait
                        Siblings and Spouses
                        Mom's first ride
                        Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
                        (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Right you are Steve, appreciated that little tid bit, really made me feel the shims were securely seated and I could trust the measurement afterwards. Rechecked the shims this morning and got them all in between 0.045 as the tightest and 0.08 as the widest. Most are around 0.05 and 0.06. That's got to be the most time I've spent playing with the spacing for sure, lol. That's what I call job done. Going to synch her again and hopefully that little tick is gone and if not then I'll just chalk it up to another reliable noise of a 34 yr old bike. I'm pretty sure all this work is due to the fact we're leaving on a 2 week trip on Saturday and I've the the pre trip jitters. I think after this I had better lock the shed with all the tools!
                          Rob
                          1983 1100ES, 98' ST1100, 02' DR-Z400E and a few other 'bits and pieces'
                          Are you on the GSR Google Earth Map yet? http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=170533

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by azr View Post
                            Right you are Steve, appreciated that little tid bit, really made me feel the shims were securely seated and I could trust the measurement afterwards. Rechecked the shims this morning and got them all in between 0.045 as the tightest and 0.08 as the widest. Most are around 0.05 and 0.06. That's got to be the most time I've spent playing with the spacing for sure, lol. That's what I call job done. Going to synch her again and hopefully that little tick is gone and if not then I'll just chalk it up to another reliable noise of a 34 yr old bike. I'm pretty sure all this work is due to the fact we're leaving on a 2 week trip on Saturday and I've the the pre trip jitters. I think after this I had better lock the shed with all the tools!
                            If it quits ticking, then I'd be worried, every UJM I've owned, ticking is a sign of normal valve clearance, if it's something your not used to hearing thats different, but I wouldn't expect it to go away alltogether.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by old_skool View Post
                              ..., every UJM I've owned, ticking is a sign of normal valve clearance, ...
                              True, some noise is normal, but how the heck are you going to hear clearances in the range of our engines?

                              Every other engine I have worked on had clearances that were much larger than what we have on our GS engines.

                              Of course, those are the COLD clearances, no telling what happens to them when they get HOT.

                              .
                              sigpic
                              mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
                              hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
                              #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
                              #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
                              Family Portrait
                              Siblings and Spouses
                              Mom's first ride
                              Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
                              (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X